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[Equipment] F&P HC 150 in addition to H5i?
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jgjones1972 Offline

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Posts: 516
Joined: Nov 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Quattro FX
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 18 - 20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: CMS50I PulseOx

Sex: Male
Location: Ohio - USA

Post: #1
F&P HC 150 in addition to H5i?
The H5i water chamber just doesn't seem to hold enough water. With avg. pressure running around 19cmH2O a full chamber (actually over-filled) only lasts about 6 hours when humidity is set to 6, about 6.5 hours when set to 5.5. 5.5 is lowest I can set it and still be able to comfortably go to sleep without getting sinus issues. I would love to be able to set it back to 6, but want more than 6 hours of sleep. I think I could sleep longer than 6.5 or seven hours; but dry, aching sinuses wake me up after the water chamber dries up.

I've been looking at the F&P HC 150 stand alone, in-line heated humidifier. I figured I could fill the H5i, run the ClimateLine from it to the filled HC 150 and then run a Hybernite heated hose from the HC 150 to my mask. I figured the humidified air from the H5i would just pass over the water in the HC 150 because of its already high moisture content, but when the H5i ran dry the HC 150 would take over and start humidifying the now dry air. Good plan, right? Well, expensive and awkward; but should work, right?

I got to thinking about it before placing the orders though. It is my understanding that the AutoSet uses pressure pulses (or something of that nature) and resistance/return readings from those pulses in order to differentiate OSA and CSA events, etc. Would an in-line cavity, like the HC 150 water chamber, throw off the AutoSet's diagnostics? Would the AutoSet still be able to function on Auto mode properly? Are there other issues I'm not even thinking about?

I don't want to spend about $300.00 for a rig like this and then find out it doesn't work/doesn't allow me to use Auto mode/throws off all my data.

I would appreciate any thoughts/suggestions on this.

I've already tried a room humidifier, but don't like it - it makes the ambient air feel clammy and icky when it is turned up enough to help; when turned down enough to feel comfortable it doesn't add enough life to the H5i tank.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Thanks
03-17-2013 10:18 AM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Posts: 8,067
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type; chronic sarcasm

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #2
RE: F&P HC 150 in addition to H5i?
Yes, it uses pulses as a way to determine the type of blockage. I don't think it would work.

In a very cold snap here where we have the heat way up, I will get about 6-7 hrs then am woken up to an awful smell that burns my nose. What I did a few winters ago, I topped off the tank then went back to sleep. I'd only been a sleep for a few hours at that point anyway.

Is something like that possible? Setting an alarm and topping it off? Do you need the humidifier that high all year?

Have you tried it without the climate line hose? I wonder if that would keep more moisture in the air (but cause rainout so maybe not)

PaulaO2
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
03-17-2013 05:59 PM
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Shastzi Offline

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Posts: 1,174
Joined: Dec 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: FitLife Total face mask
Humidifier: F&P HC150 with Hybernite heated hose.
CPAP Pressure: 15cm-20cm H2O (auto)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: CMS50-F wearable Oximeter; Software: SPO2 Assistant

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: Florida, USA.

Post: #3
RE: F&P HC 150 in addition to H5i?
Has anyone actually tried this arraingment out yet with the H5I => ClimateLine=>Hybernite hose?
It means the resonant cavity will be longer perhaps but is the S9 autoset smartenough to "figure out" that there is just an extra long hose attached or not?
If the system used raw statistics it will not matter as much if a 6' or 12' hose is attached.
However the kicker is: "How long must the hose become before the sonic 'ping', poops out and fades away?"
Then I guess it will register all apneas as clear air variety or 'unknown'
Does anyone out there run a 12' hose on an S9?
The answer is out there....

Smile

"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

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03-17-2013 06:43 PM
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jgjones1972 Offline

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Posts: 516
Joined: Nov 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Quattro FX
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 18 - 20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: CMS50I PulseOx

Sex: Male
Location: Ohio - USA

Post: #4
RE: F&P HC 150 in addition to H5i?
(03-17-2013 05:59 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  In a very cold snap here where we have the heat way up, I will get about 6-7 hrs then am woken up to an awful smell that burns my nose. What I did a few winters ago, I topped off the tank then went back to sleep. I'd only been a sleep for a few hours at that point anyway.

Is something like that possible? Setting an alarm and topping it off? Do you need the humidifier that high all year?

Unfortunately, if I wake up after having been asleep for more than 3 or 4 hours I can't really go back to sleep.

I'm hoping that the warmer weather will help some until next winter. I'm not really sure though, I've just been on CPAP since late last August and for the first couple months all I knew was what the DME showed me (where the "on" button is). I never ran out of water, but the humidity was set very low. I just mouth breathed at night and then just dumped the sand out of my mouth and throat when I woke up. It wasn't until late October that I found out how to crank the humidity up and discovered that I could breath through my nose at night. I also spend most nights in hotel rooms, so the air conditioning will probably make things tough in the summer months too.
03-17-2013 07:02 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Posts: 4,995
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed AirCurve10 VAuto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: HumidAir and SlimLine Hose
CPAP Pressure: MaxI 13.6 | MinE 5.2 | PS 4.4
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

Sex: Male
Location: Houston, Texas

Post: #5
RE: F&P HC 150 in addition to H5i?
(03-17-2013 10:18 AM)jgjones1972 Wrote:  I figured I could fill the H5i, run the ClimateLine from it to the filled HC 150 and then run a Hybernite heated hose from the HC 150 to my mask.

Before trying something that elaborate, I would try to find a way to make the reservoir hold more water. I've never had a ResMed machine in my hands so I can't help you, but with a PRS1 machine I could rig up an extra tank with a hose that connects to the machine's tank. I have a couple of extra tanks so I could experiment.

Another solution would be to place that whole-room humidifier of yours on a timer. Have it come on for only a few hours during the night.

The CPAP machine senses the humidity in the room and regulates the amount of water it adds to the air accordingly.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
03-17-2013 10:28 PM
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zonk Offline

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Posts: 7,908
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: A10 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Activa LT
Humidifier: Integrated /ClimateLineAir
CPAP Pressure: 9/13
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: CPAP since Nov 2010

Sex: Male
Location: Australia

Post: #6
RE: F&P HC 150 in addition to H5i?
(03-17-2013 06:43 PM)Shastzi Wrote:  Does anyone out there run a 12' hose on an S9?
PollCat uses 10 feet hose
03-18-2013 01:32 AM
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Shastzi Offline

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Posts: 1,174
Joined: Dec 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: FitLife Total face mask
Humidifier: F&P HC150 with Hybernite heated hose.
CPAP Pressure: 15cm-20cm H2O (auto)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: CMS50-F wearable Oximeter; Software: SPO2 Assistant

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: Florida, USA.

Post: #7
RE: F&P HC 150 in addition to H5i?
Hmm. I have used 9' before. 10' is shown to work. 12' will possibly work but we might only need 7-10' for this to work so..
My hypothesis is that it'll work! I found a Hypernite hose for $48 (free shipping) from dealer X in California.
The P&K humidifier holds 480ml of water as opposed to 380ml for the H5i.
I will post pix on photobucket.

"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

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03-18-2013 05:30 AM
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archangle Offline
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Posts: 3,159
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift FX
Humidifier: ResMed S9 H5i
CPAP Pressure: 16-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Happy PAPper

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: USA

Post: #8
RE: F&P HC 150 in addition to H5i?
Do you have any significant number of central apneas? I suspect that distinguishing a central apnea from an obstructive apnea would be the most likely to be affected.

Long hoses have been reported to affect bilevel switching from inhale to exhale as well, so it might affect EPR/Flex.

You might try reducing the pressure range on the Auto to keep it from going too high or too low in case it can't sense things as well with the extra hose and tank.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
03-18-2013 07:13 AM
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Shastzi Offline

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Posts: 1,174
Joined: Dec 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: FitLife Total face mask
Humidifier: F&P HC150 with Hybernite heated hose.
CPAP Pressure: 15cm-20cm H2O (auto)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: CMS50-F wearable Oximeter; Software: SPO2 Assistant

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: Florida, USA.

Post: #9
RE: F&P HC 150 in addition to H5i?
I was thinking the same, Archangle.
I am guessing that the S9 either has a mathematical model for the hose as far as its average 'tuned length'
(note the different selections in the menu for "slim line" and "standard" hoses.)
The slim hose would have air traveling down it faster than the larger hose (Bournoulli)
or it if calculates that by sending a test 'ping' down the hose and noting the average echo back time.

In any case I am looking to minimize the hose length, just to keep things real.

Wink

"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

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03-18-2013 07:51 AM
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