Post Reply 
[Equipment] How Accurate is the Data???
Author Message
johntrottier Offline

New Members

Posts: 2
Joined: Dec 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 ST
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: unsure
Humidifier: ResMed S9
CPAP Pressure: 18 - 23
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Vancouver WA

Post: #1
How Accurate is the Data???
Hello All
First the General Info
I have severe sleep apnea, both central and obstructive. with sleep studies showing between 120 and 175 events per hour depending on the study
I have been using VPAP and CPAP machines for more than 10 years
I have had this ResMed machine for just under a year

Current Setup
Mode ST
Ipap - 23.4
Epap - 18.4
Resp rate 11
Ti Max 4
Ti Min 2.2

I use Sleepyhead to read the data from the SD card and display it.
My charts show that I have not had a peak AHI of over 12 in the last 2 months. Normally the peak is between 4 and 8.
The mask pressure chart shows the machine maintaining it's pressure set points
Leaks are minimal
That all sounds really great.
But 5 or 6 times in the last two months, I just have terrible nights, where I can remember waking up, falling asleep, again and again, waking up in the morning a complete zombie.
The only times I have had this happen before was when I was having problems with a machine.
Yet the charts are showing no issues.

So my question is, how accurate is the data? The techs all swear it's absolutely perfect, but my body is saying something very different.
As an electrical designer and programmer, I am also well aware that what gets recorded is not always the entire story.
It's really hard to argue with the techs when they point to the charts and say "It's just fine. You don't have a problem" and you are so zonked out you can hardly think.

Any insights would be appreciated
09-18-2013 09:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
PaulaO2 Offline
Wiki Editor
Moderators

Posts: 8,067
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type; chronic sarcasm

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #2
RE: How Accurate is the Data???
It's fairly accurate from a machine stand point. Each generation of machines just keeps getting better and better at not just treatment, but determining what treatment is needed.

Also, there's a lot of factors that go into a good or bad night's sleep. If it were happening every other night, then there'd be reason for concern about accuracy.

That said, consider also installing and using ResScan to compare. You won't see detailed data for anything over 7 days but it can help for future nights.

PaulaO2
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-18-2013 10:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
me50 Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 2,559
Joined: Aug 2013

Machine: resmed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Wisp and Silicone Head gear
Humidifier: resmed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 18/8
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: USA

Post: #3
RE: How Accurate is the Data???
(09-18-2013 09:37 PM)johntrottier Wrote:  Hello All
First the General Info
I have severe sleep apnea, both central and obstructive. with sleep studies showing between 120 and 175 events per hour depending on the study
I have been using VPAP and CPAP machines for more than 10 years
I have had this ResMed machine for just under a year

Current Setup
Mode ST
Ipap - 23.4
Epap - 18.4
Resp rate 11
Ti Max 4
Ti Min 2.2

I use Sleepyhead to read the data from the SD card and display it.
My charts show that I have not had a peak AHI of over 12 in the last 2 months. Normally the peak is between 4 and 8.
The mask pressure chart shows the machine maintaining it's pressure set points
Leaks are minimal
That all sounds really great.
But 5 or 6 times in the last two months, I just have terrible nights, where I can remember waking up, falling asleep, again and again, waking up in the morning a complete zombie.
The only times I have had this happen before was when I was having problems with a machine.
Yet the charts are showing no issues.

So my question is, how accurate is the data? The techs all swear it's absolutely perfect, but my body is saying something very different.
As an electrical designer and programmer, I am also well aware that what gets recorded is not always the entire story.
It's really hard to argue with the techs when they point to the charts and say "It's just fine. You don't have a problem" and you are so zonked out you can hardly think.

Any insights would be appreciated

can you put the data in ResScan and see if there is a difference in the results? Just a thought.
09-18-2013 10:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
trish6hundred Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 6,449
Joined: May 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet for Her
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Paykel Simplus
Humidifier: H5i Heated Humidifier
CPAP Pressure: 10 - 7-20 Cm H2O
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments: I started CPAP in 2008. Totally blind since birth.

Sex: Female
Location: Missouri, USA

Post: #4
RE: How Accurate is the Data???
Hi johntrottier,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
Hang in there for more responses to your post.

trish6hundred
09-18-2013 10:20 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
archangle Offline
Wiki Editor
Advisory Members

Posts: 3,159
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift FX
Humidifier: ResMed S9 H5i
CPAP Pressure: 16-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Happy PAPper

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: USA

Post: #5
RE: How Accurate is the Data???
In my opinion, AHI and event measurement is not really that well "defined."

One set of breathing patterns may count as an apnea, while something just a little bit less doesn't get flagged.

In a lot of ways, it doesn't matter that much because the machine will correctly flag severe events. You can detect the significant events for most of the patients.

However, if you're "borderline" for much of the night, that's much less well understood. Sometimes, they use terms like RERA, UARS, hypoventilation, etc. Diagnosis and treatment of these conditions is much less clear even with the right conditions. CPAP machines are not as "smart" about these conditions as they are about "regular" OSA and CSA.

Also, CPAP machines can't see EEG and chest effort that is used in sleep labs.

I think to some extent, the answers are often there in the waveforms. (Airflow, minute vent, etc.) Unfortunately, the interpretation is a LOT tougher.

There's also a problem that even if the "mechanical" aspects are taken care of, your brain may respond to breathing events more quickly than the machine and partially or completely wake you up. i.e. your airway closes up, but your brain panics before the machine recognizes anything and wakes you up and stops the apnea.

Sometimes, some experimental adjustments based on feelings, not CPAP data help. For instance, I feel better if I increase my minimum pressure above the level that eliminates most of my AHI. I think it eliminates some "ragged" breathing, RERA, and related stress.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
09-19-2013 01:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
me50 Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 2,559
Joined: Aug 2013

Machine: resmed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Wisp and Silicone Head gear
Humidifier: resmed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 18/8
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: USA

Post: #6
RE: How Accurate is the Data???
I use Sleepyhead to read the data from the SD card and display it.
My charts show that I have not had a peak AHI of over 12 in the last 2 months. Normally the peak is between 4 and 8.
The mask pressure chart shows the machine maintaining it's pressure set points
Leaks are minimal

If I understand your post correctly at 2:51 AM, AHI of 12 per hour is high and may be why you don't feel rested and like you are getting quality sleep those 5 or 6 nights.

Just a thought. Dont-know
09-19-2013 04:53 AM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
johntrottier Offline

New Members

Posts: 2
Joined: Dec 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 ST
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: unsure
Humidifier: ResMed S9
CPAP Pressure: 18 - 23
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Vancouver WA

Post: #7
RE: How Accurate is the Data???
(09-19-2013 01:19 AM)archangle Wrote:  In my opinion, AHI and event measurement is not really that well "defined."

One set of breathing patterns may count as an apnea, while something just a little bit less doesn't get flagged.

In a lot of ways, it doesn't matter that much because the machine will correctly flag severe events. You can detect the significant events for most of the patients.

However, if you're "borderline" for much of the night, that's much less well understood. Sometimes, they use terms like RERA, UARS, hypoventilation, etc. Diagnosis and treatment of these conditions is much less clear even with the right conditions. CPAP machines are not as "smart" about these conditions as they are about "regular" OSA and CSA.

Also, CPAP machines can't see EEG and chest effort that is used in sleep labs.

I think to some extent, the answers are often there in the waveforms. (Airflow, minute vent, etc.) Unfortunately, the interpretation is a LOT tougher.

There's also a problem that even if the "mechanical" aspects are taken care of, your brain may respond to breathing events more quickly than the machine and partially or completely wake you up. i.e. your airway closes up, but your brain panics before the machine recognizes anything and wakes you up and stops the apnea.

Sometimes, some experimental adjustments based on feelings, not CPAP data help. For instance, I feel better if I increase my minimum pressure above the level that eliminates most of my AHI. I think it eliminates some "ragged" breathing, RERA, and related stress.

Thank you for you great post.
I suspect you hit the nail on the head with the statement that not all events are flagged
I keep working on it

Thanks to all for the advice
09-19-2013 07:38 AM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Sleepyhead data vs. Doctor's data Daisylouu 8 1,402 09-01-2016 06:10 PM
Last Post: eseedhouse
  Accurate device for consumers to measure sleep cycles? mikeuva123 3 327 07-24-2016 04:01 PM
Last Post: FrankNichols
  Revised Post Regarding "I need help with SH data" - with data included! Jeffo1 3 593 05-16-2016 11:28 PM
Last Post: Jeffo1
  Reliable, accurate pulse oximeter? plnelson 10 2,077 08-20-2015 03:36 AM
Last Post: DocWils
  Data viewer for 960 BiPAP AutoSV / Missing data pswartz 5 2,254 10-06-2014 02:31 PM
Last Post: pswartz
  How accurate is the S9 VPAP Auto clear airway data? arttest 8 1,899 08-26-2014 08:44 PM
Last Post: arttest
  Does reading the data card erase the data? Marnid2014 22 8,562 03-12-2014 12:36 PM
Last Post: retired_guy

Forum Jump:

Who's Online (Complete List)