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[Equipment] Purpose of WiFi on Resmed S9 Autoset
#21
(04-29-2014, 03:53 PM)robysue Wrote: Now, I admit that US Mail is not overly "secure", but I'm still more comfortable with the idea of mailing the chip in rather than having the data transmitted via a cell phone network.

After my postal carrier makes his delivery pass down the block, we all stand in the middle of the street and exchange our mis-delivered mail.

Gives me a warm feeling knowing my banking information might be a block away.
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#22
Mongo,

As I said I know the US mail is not secure.

But the paranoid in me is worried that if enough doctors and DMEs sign on the idea of wireless transmission of CPAP data into the cloud, then Resmed and others will have strong motivation to ditch putting chips into the machine at all.

And that will effectively lock us, the patient, out of seeing our own detailed data.
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#23
(04-30-2014, 09:36 AM)robysue Wrote: Mongo,

As I said I know the US mail is not secure.

But the paranoid in me is worried that if enough doctors and DMEs sign on the idea of wireless transmission of CPAP data into the cloud, then Resmed and others will have strong motivation to ditch putting chips into the machine at all.

And that will effectively lock us, the patient, out of seeing our own detailed data.

That is not paranoia, that is progress. Sdcards are old technology already. Here's how it will go:

"Introducing our new Sxx model of xpap machine. Now you will not be dependent on your patient remembering to bring their machine to the appointment. No cumbersome sdcard means patient data is uploaded daily to our super secure servers. Ready for the smart DME or Sleep Doc to review at your leisure. The exciting Sxx xpap machine: The latest in convenience for you and your patient."
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#24
For every technology there is a countermeasure.
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#25
(04-30-2014, 11:33 AM)retired_guy Wrote:
(04-30-2014, 09:36 AM)robysue Wrote: Mongo,

As I said I know the US mail is not secure.

But the paranoid in me is worried that if enough doctors and DMEs sign on the idea of wireless transmission of CPAP data into the cloud, then Resmed and others will have strong motivation to ditch putting chips into the machine at all.

And that will effectively lock us, the patient, out of seeing our own detailed data.

That is not paranoia, that is progress. Sdcards are old technology already. Here's how it will go:

"Introducing our new Sxx model of xpap machine. Now you will not be dependent on your patient remembering to bring their machine to the appointment. No cumbersome sdcard means patient data is uploaded daily to our super secure servers. Ready for the smart DME or Sleep Doc to review at your leisure. The exciting Sxx xpap machine: The latest in convenience for you and your patient."

The problem is: How will we, the patients get access to our own data? Certainly the manufacturers believe that we need little or no access---compare what data they're willing to let us see on things like SleepMapper and on the machine's LCD to what we (the data freaks) are used to seeing in SleepyHead or ResScan or Encore.

And I believe that the manufacturers will work exceptionally hard and preventing patient access to the databases intended for the docs and DMEs. After all, they refuse to sell or openly distribute the software to us now and DMEs and docs routinely tell us such lies as "it's illegal for you to see the data."

Yes, I know most PAPers have no interest in their data. But I do. So how will I see my own data in this brave new world of the machine automatically uploads the data to the DME and my doc, but not ME?
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#26
(04-30-2014, 11:45 AM)justMongo Wrote: For every technology there is a countermeasure.
Without the SD card, how do I get my hands on all the (raw) data? Intercept it as it's being transmitted? And just how the heck am I supposed to do that? I'm a reasonably computer literate person, but NOT a genuine hacker and I know little or nothing about how cell phones actually transmit the data and how to intercept it.

I'm just not seeing an easy way to counter technology that sends my data to the cloud at times that I'm not told about to locations that I'm not told about and provides me with no way of downloading the data directly from the machine myself.

As a comparison: How would diabetics feel about a blood testing device where they insert the strip and never see the results because they're automatically sent to a centralized cloud database for the doc to peruse when the doc is interested???


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#27
(04-30-2014, 01:50 PM)robysue Wrote: The problem is: How will we, the patients get access to our own data? Certainly the manufacturers believe that we need little or no access---compare what data they're willing to let us see on things like SleepMapper and on the machine's LCD to what we (the data freaks) are used to seeing in SleepyHead or ResScan or Encore.

And I believe that the manufacturers will work exceptionally hard and preventing patient access to the databases intended for the docs and DMEs. After all, they refuse to sell or openly distribute the software to us now and DMEs and docs routinely tell us such lies as "it's illegal for you to see the data."

Yes, I know most PAPers have no interest in their data. But I do. So how will I see my own data in this brave new world of the machine automatically uploads the data to the DME and my doc, but not ME?

The manufacturers and the DME's in their ongoing quest to keep you "safe" will prohibit you from seeing all that confusing stuff that you probably would not understand anyhow. However, in their also ongoing quest for enlightened patients, they will provide you with easy to use web sites such as "Sleepmapper," where they can give you happy faces if you are performing as they expect.

But if you insist: "Yes you do have a right to all your medical records. So if you would kindly submit a request we will be able to provide you with all your data in a week or so."

"How else can we be of service to you today?"
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#28
The author of sleepyhead figured out how to parse binary data from various machines.
If the manufacturers take a more difficult technical path to keep data out of the hands of the user community, some bright person will come up with a hack for that technology. Even if they encrypt it, it will be cracked.
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#29
(04-30-2014, 02:09 PM)justMongo Wrote: The author of sleepyhead figured out how to parse binary data from various machines.
If the manufacturers take a more difficult technical path to keep data out of the hands of the user community, some bright person will come up with a hack for that technology. Even if they encrypt it, it will be cracked.
JediMark, the author of SleepyHead had the data sitting right in front of him on the SD card; he didn't have to hack into any of PR's computer systems or communications systems to GET that data.

And he also had a core set of volunteers providing him with examples of Encore reports, including wave flow data, for the System One machines he was working on. (I'm not sure JediMark ever actually downloaded or used a version of Encore while he was working on SleepyHead). So checking the reliability of the code was relatively easy. Likewise, when Resmed machines were added, the data was there in front of JediMark and his helpers and plenty of ResScan reports were around for checking the SH data displays for accuracy.

In other words, JediMark's remarkable programming was essentially backwards engineering facilitated by having all raw data he could possibly want sitting in front of him on the SD cards (both his and many others who volunteered to let him have copies of the data on their SD cards).

Notably when the Series 60 machines came out with a NEW data format it took several months for the SleepyHead programmers to come up with the patch to work with those machines. But again---the data was there in front of them on the SD cards of Series 60 users who volunteered to send that data to the folks who wrote the patch.

But if Remed (or other manufacturers) eliminate the SD card altogether in favor of electronic transmission of the data to the cloud, the first and hardest task is going to be getting our hands ON the data in the first place.

And that either means hacking into the cloud storage database itself OR finding a way to hack into the transmission of the data itself. Either way, Resmed (or the other manufacturers) will regard this as an outside attack on their system and escalate the security measures with each detectable breach of their system.

And (as a very serious question) what HARDWARE are we going to need to obtain in order to snoop our our daily data as it is being transmitted to a server that we have no (legal) access to?


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#30
(04-30-2014, 02:01 PM)retired_guy Wrote:
(04-30-2014, 01:50 PM)robysue Wrote: The problem is: How will we, the patients get access to our own data? Certainly the manufacturers believe that we need little or no access---compare what data they're willing to let us see on things like SleepMapper and on the machine's LCD to what we (the data freaks) are used to seeing in SleepyHead or ResScan or Encore.

And I believe that the manufacturers will work exceptionally hard and preventing patient access to the databases intended for the docs and DMEs. After all, they refuse to sell or openly distribute the software to us now and DMEs and docs routinely tell us such lies as "it's illegal for you to see the data."

Yes, I know most PAPers have no interest in their data. But I do. So how will I see my own data in this brave new world of the machine automatically uploads the data to the DME and my doc, but not ME?

The manufacturers and the DME's in their ongoing quest to keep you "safe" will prohibit you from seeing all that confusing stuff that you probably would not understand anyhow. However, in their also ongoing quest for enlightened patients, they will provide you with easy to use web sites such as "Sleepmapper," where they can give you happy faces if you are performing as they expect.

But if you insist: "Yes you do have a right to all your medical records. So if you would kindly submit a request we will be able to provide you with all your data in a week or so."
And they'll probably charge me a buck a page for the (paper) report.


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