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[Equipment] ResMed Quiet Air Diffuser Vent F30
RE: ResMed Quiet Air Diffuser Vent F30
I have been using my F30 mask and elbow for almost a year and a half . I never bother washing the elbow . I shone a light through the backside with a flashlight just now  and there are no black spots whatsoever .
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RE: ResMed Quiet Air Diffuser Vent F30
Good info, Dave!!!!

For me, the toxic-feeling headaches are a clear clue that I'm not getting adequate treatment.

Next time you order the mask, you may consider requesting the old (not quiet) elbow. They may be thrilled to get rid of old stock.
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RE: ResMed Quiet Air Diffuser Vent F30
I am pretty sure the issue where some people notice the CO2 with the Quiet Air Diffuser elbow and some don't is that people with efficient lungs aren't noticing all the CO2 they are rebreathing with the Quiet Air Diffuser but those with less efficient lungs do.
 
Those with middling lung efficiency will get headaches.
 
People like me with Reactive Airway disease (damaged lung surfaces) quickly notice the CO2 ... (air delivered to my lungs by the CPAP with a diminished oxygen ratio )... and after several breaths I start feeling faintish.
 
(My Reactive Airway lung surfaces are so inefficient that although I am fit I can't run more than 10 steps without stopping and sucking air)
 
I just got an new Resmed Airfit 20 with the Quiet Air Diffuser elbow and get faint if I try to use it.  Resmed immediately sent me another new one and identical behavior resulted ...I couldn't use it either.
 
Then they gave me a new Airfit 10 with the old style elbow and it delivers wonderful air / no CO2 to me ... exactly like my previous Quattro Air mask, with the same old style vent elbow, did for 5 years.
 
Just take the Quite Air elbow off your mask and hose, turn it around, close off the hose end of the elbow with a finger etc, put your mouth over the mask end and blow an exhale breath.
 
The two flap vents will slap shut and you will get an exact measure of how much CO2 volume the elbow is allowing to escape when this elbow is operating when attached to the mask and machine.    It would be interesting to get a meter on that volume but I would guess it could not be more than 5% of your exhale volume at best.  
 
That means all the rest of the CO2 ... in increasing amounts as you wear the mask, is getting drawn and pumped down into your lungs for your lungs to deal with.
 
Better lungs will do better at extracting the remaining O2 etc but no lungs are supposed to be rebreathing CO2 in anything but very minor amounts.
 
Very unhealthy over time. Carbon dioxide intoxication or carbon dioxide poisoning, known, respectively, as hypercapnia can lead to headaches, disturbed sleep, drowsiness, elevated blood pressure, difficulty in thinking, muscle twitches and if untreated over time to cardio or respiratory failure. 
 
Look it up. And read on the various CPAP bulletin boards how many new Quiet Air Diffuser users are reporting headaches, disturbed sleep and puzzlement over the essentially non-venting Quiet Air elbow issue.
 
With my new Airfit F10, the single flap vent opens and closes as I breath just as my old Quattro mask elbow flap vent did.
 
With the  new Airfit 20 Quiet Air Diffuser the two vents slap shut in 2 seconds from the basically un-vented back pressure as the machine ramps up and NEVER open up again.   (At least on my machine delivering 7 ml of pressure.) 
 
From what I can tell this is the experience of everyone who notices the oddity.  I have not heard one report on any of these Quiet Air Elbows of the flap vents opening and closing like their previous models did... which also leaked substantially around the rotational joint of the older elbow design.
 
As a Heating Ventilating Air conditioning professional, who was professionally educated on movement properties of air and liquids, I can only guess that this Quiet Air Diffuser elbow was designed essentially by the Resmed Marketing dept for the wearer's partner in order to increase sales. 
 
No professional engineer using volumetric test equipment and medical guidelines could possibly have designed this Quiet Air Diffuser where the CO2 siphon vent rate can hardly be detected if you hold a piece of down fluff up to any number of brand new operating Quiet Air Diffuser elbows ... as I have done.
 
CO2 venting through pinholes? … CO2 venting through pinholes that some say are backed by filament?? 
 
Any air engineer knows essentially NOTHING vents thru pinholes because the moving air resistance / drag is so incredibly high.  Nothing physical likes to squeeze thru tiny spaces.

How well does your raincoat vent thru those 3 little vent holes under the armpits?
 
Who is kidding who here?
 
 I think Resmed got caught with its "hand in the cookie jar" with this apparently medically dysfunctional Quiet Air Elbow ... and like so many corporations they will not admit it until somebody has enough damages and evidence to sue them.   Even then such info will be kept off the record.
 
BUT there is a potential solution to look into which I am researching.  Apparently these CPAP machines have back pressure settings that interface with the machines pumping algorithms to accommodate different mask designs.
 
X0 thru X4 or such which the supplying medical vendor's technician sets depending on what kind of mask you choose to use. 
 
I believe nose pillow’s setting is X4.  The Airfit F20’s supposedly is X1 and that may possibly actually be incorrect for proper operation of the more restrictive Quiet Air Elbow masks.  Our CO2 problems could just be the result of an inadvertent typo.
 
I am wondering if the Quiet Air Elbow masks are being sent out with the wrong machine X setting .... at least in some cases?
 
I much prefer the more comfortable mask silicon seal and the magnet fasteners of the Airfit F20  to the older Airfit 10 I am having to use now in order to keep from fainting. 
 
So I would love to get the AirFit F20’s CO2 venting working
 
If anyone using a Quiet Air Elbow is experiencing continuously operating flap vents while using a Quiet Elbow mask, please post such to this group.
 
If anyone knows anything about the mask X settings please advise on that subject too.
 
Thanks much
 
db
 


 
 
 
 
 
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RE: ResMed Quiet Air Diffuser Vent F30
The X mask settings referred to are related to Respironics machines and masks. My ResMed ASV machine has Mask settings that goes by Full Face, Nasal, Pillows. The ResMed masks I have, the F20 is Full Face and N/P30i both go under the Pillows setting. ResMed does not have this X setting.
Dave

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RE: ResMed Quiet Air Diffuser Vent F30
I've been using the airfit F30 for half a month now & have had no issues. I wash it every morning, shake as much water out & sit it on top of my swivel fan to air dry. Weekly I add vinegar to the soapy water & soak it. Seems to do the job keeping it black spot free.
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RE: ResMed Quiet Air Diffuser Vent F30
Just got back to this threat and am surprised wit this much discussion of the black dot and restriction issue that Resmed haven't done anything about it ?

I haven't had any headache issues from mine but do wonder if I've gotten used to some symptoms so going back to an old style for a few nights to see while I soak my current one.

I just tried the old one and air seems to come out of the vent holes on both inhale and exhale which made me wonder if it derestricts back pressure meaning less pressure to hold open your airway - I would have thought you should only feel airflow out of the vent holes on exhale rather than all the time ?

On a COVID side note, I fear I've been a little lax on filter changes and just changed mine after maybe 2 months - I've never seen much discoloration of old filter (this time the same) but this time I held it in one hand and finger flicked it with the other = Eeeeewwwwwww !

Turns out it really does filter out dust even if you don't see discoloration, do it yourself away from the machine to see what it caught, I was kind of grossed out but anyway.............

Rob
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RE: ResMed Quiet Air Diffuser Vent F30
I keep the area around where my CPAP machine sits very clean. My machine is going on 20 months old, and I've changed the air filter twice. It just doesn't get dirty. 

I clean the filters by hand with hot water and some Dawn dish soap. I give it a gentle finger massage and rinse. I do that about every 6 weeks or so. I've yet to see an actual dirty filter. No discoloration what-so-ever. 

My machine sits atop a bedside file cabinet, that is the same height as the top of my bed's mattress. The cabinet has a slick top metal surface, so it's easy to wipe / keep clean. 

I keep hearing about these dirty air filters, and I'm befuddled. I'm not seeing any of that.  Dont-know
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RE: ResMed Quiet Air Diffuser Vent F30
Re: filters - DreamStation has a 2 filter system, and the microfilter gets dirty and starts smelling like dirty air. So I change it every other week.

Whereas ResMed doesn't have the micorfilter, so I don't find it smelling stale, but I change the filter if it picked up bad smells from where I've traveled (ie: a casino).

Re: Venting air - On all of my masks that vent well (ie: NOT the P10 nor the F20/F30 with quiet elbow), there is venting happening on both inhale and exhale. I think this is decently standard. I get good AHI and symptom relief, so it must be doing its job.

Re: the X on masks - I agree with SarcasticDave. That's a Respironics thing. I just turn that setting off on mine, since I frequently switch masks, and I don't want to be bothered.
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RE: ResMed Quiet Air Diffuser Vent F30
Hi Dbotas,

You can pick up an old style F20 elbow with visable vent holes and no diffuser on ebay for around $35. I have one on the way.

Regards,

Dave
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RE: ResMed Quiet Air Diffuser Vent F30
Bad design happens all the time.  If it's not because of ineptitude then usually it has something to do with a "wrong" ... usually external ... motivation.  

When American cars became death traps in the 60's it was because the manufacturers were highly focused on sales driven primarily by superficial style ... not mechanical design.  Marketing was driving that design instead of engineering or safety.

In fact great design is probably more rare

And usually bad design happens in degrees. 

 In this case, it does seem that the Quiet Air Elbow Design may be" throwing the baby out with the bathwater" ... if it is true as it seems to be ... that the design is causing users to rebreath large amts of CO2... which is going largely undetected because breathing C02 and its symptoms are largely undetectable. 

Most people have efficient lungs so won't ever feel the harmful medical effects until so much time has passed that the cause will never be suspected.

I have such damaged lungs however, I can tell within minutes that I am not getting a rich enough % of oxygen whenever I try to use a mask with a Quiet Air Elbow instead of one of their original designs

The Quiet Air Elbow mask designs were not developed in tandem with the current Resmed CPAP's ...as was the case with all their earlier mask designs ... so it could easily be possible that how the mask interacts with the machine's air controlling algorithms and the quantification of inhaled CO2 was overlooked.

Resmed was and is DEFINITELY focused on quiet operation with the Quiet Air Elbow masks.

And what does that have to do with health of the wearer?  NOTHING,  it's a feature that only benefits the wearer's partner.

If u can have both that's a win / win.  But win wins are hard to achieve and I don't think they have done it hear.

U exhale a lot of CO2 with each breath.  U can't expel that amount thru pinholes and then around a right angle unless u were to use a LOT of force ... not available in this case ... and at which point there wiould also be an accompanying lot of noise.

IMO, the exhaled CO2 for the most part is not going thru the pinholes ... we are simply rebreathing it with this Quiet Elbow Design.

And I think Resmed is sticking with their false explanation because there is no simple or quick way to prove it to be wrong.

If this were not a physical fact then we would have quiet jet engines, hair dryers and leaf blowers by now
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