Post Reply 
[Equipment] Waking up in middle of night terror can't breathe
Author Message
rylan Offline

New Members

Posts: 2
Joined: Feb 2015

Machine: resmed s9 vpap auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: resmed
Humidifier: h5i
CPAP Pressure: 17 / ?
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #1
Waking up in middle of night terror can't breathe
I have been on bipap machines for 15 years plus. With my new machine (s9 vapap auto) I have on occasion woken up with the machine off and myself gasping for air. Never had this with any other machine. The first few times I easily caught my breath reset the machine and went back to sleep. Last week this happened, I was so out of air by the time I woke up I couldn't catch my breath. Just writing about this is uncomfortable, like it could happen again right now. I was in full panic mode. I was gulping air but still wasn't getting any oxygen. I was doing everything I could (gulping) but it was not helping. Imagine having plastic pressed over your face and not being able to get air and also knowing you could never remove the plastic no matter what you did. The only thing that helped resolve this was doing something a nurse once told me. Breath in normally but blow out gently like you were trying to cool down a cup of hot coffee. After a few moments I began feeling more in control. The panic seemed to last forever.

My resp. therapist recommended a full face mask and changed the settings on my machine so an alarm (not very loud) would go off when it sensed no breathing instead of shutting down the machine when it sensed no breathing. (Why in the world would someone design a breathing machine, that was suppose to help you breath when you stopped, to stop when you stopped breathing????) (I am paying for a machine that wants to kill me!)Oh-jeez

The full face mask didn't help. When strapped into it, it is hard to get out of quickly. Believe me, when you are panicing because of no air, even a second or two is a life time. Also, my pressure is so high the mask makes farting sounds when leaking unless you pull the straps so tight you face deforms. Which again makes the mask just that much harder to get out of. So now I am back with my old stand by nose pillows.
Has anyone else had a problem like this? If so, what has helped for you???? Thanks Rylan
02-06-2015 09:22 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
quiescence at last Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 753
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: REMstar System One with Autoflex
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Quattro AirFit F10
Humidifier: yes typical setting = 4
CPAP Pressure: 5-13 Autotritrating CPAP
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: CMS-50F Plus oximeter /w SPO2 Assistant software. Avowed mouth-breather switching to nose-breathing

Sex: Male
Location: US

Post: #2
RE: Waking up in middle of night terror can't breathe
You need to know your settings and could gain tremendous insight if you used the free software. please do so. you know you have VAPAP for a specific reason. It is a forced ventilator model. It is meant to make you breath when you don't. It has a totally different feeling than all your BiPAP machines of the past.sorry I got that wrong! I agree with later poster. thx.

You are absolutely correct that a machine intended to make you breathe should not turn off when it senses that you are not breathing. Is it possible you actually did turn it off instead of reset it, or turn it off as you were awakening, but still were in a trace?

Your machine should have an AUTO - ON feature, and that works well with pillows.

QAL

Dedicated to QALity sleep.
You'll note I am listed as an Advisory Member. I am honored to be listed as such. See the fine print - Advisory Members as a group provide advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies. Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2015 05:46 AM by quiescence at last.)
02-06-2015 09:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
trish6hundred Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 6,436
Joined: May 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet for Her
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Paykel Simplus
Humidifier: H5i Heated Humidifier
CPAP Pressure: 10 - 7-20 Cm H2O
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments: I started CPAP in 2008. Totally blind since birth.

Sex: Female
Location: Missouri, USA

Post: #3
RE: Waking up in middle of night terror can't breathe
Hi rylan,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
I'm sorry you are having such a rough time with your therapy; If you feel better, less panicky, with pillows, just stick with them.
Hang in therre for more suggestions and much success to you in getting your CPAP therapy finetuned.

trish6hundred
02-06-2015 09:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
DeepBreathing Offline
Wiki Editor
Moderators

Posts: 2,295
Joined: Sep 2013

Machine: Resmed S9 VPAP Adapt
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: Resmed H5i
CPAP Pressure: EPAP: 9 - 15 PS: 3 - 10
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post: #4
RE: Waking up in middle of night terror can't breathe
G'day Rylan, welcome to Apnea Board. From the Resmed site: http://www.resmed.com/us/en/commercial-p...-auto.html The S9 VPAP Auto is an auto-adjusting bilevel model that delivers comfortable therapy to treat OSA patients who may need higher pressure support. Based on the enhanced AutoSetâ„¢, the VAuto algorithm adjusts to the baseline pressure so breathing feels natural and comfortable.

So it's not a ventilator or ASV machine, but a xPAP with a much higher maximum pressure and a wider adjustable range between inhale and exhale (probably similar to the bipaps you've used previously).These machines do have a number of adjustments which should help you adjust better, including (obviously) the max and min pressures and pressure support, and the timing (TiControl) which manage the switchover from inhale to exhale and reverse. These might need tweaking.

The auto-on ("SmartStart") feature uses the flow sensor to detect when you start breathing, and starts the compressor going. Its converse is the auto-off which is supposed to sense when you've taken the mask off, and turns the compressor off. There is also a leak alert which detects a prolonged large leak and sounds an alarm. From my experience, these "features" are a bit erratic, give false alarms and aren't reliable. I turned them all off. I suspect you had the auto-off enabled and that's what shut your machine down. I think your therapist has enabled the leak alarm - as far as I know the VPAP Auto doesn't have a "stopped breathing" alarm (though some of the hospital grade Resmed machines do).

Something to consider is that your mask is vented so that even if the machine shuts down, you can still breathe, though it may feel a bit obstructed. Knowing this fact might help alleviate your panic symptoms.

You might also like to check the troubleshooting guide to see if there's anything else in your setup that might be causing problems: http://www.resmed.com/us/dam/documents/p...er_eng.pdf

DeepBreathing
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Bed

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2015 10:22 PM by DeepBreathing.)
02-06-2015 10:20 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
rylan Offline

New Members

Posts: 2
Joined: Feb 2015

Machine: resmed s9 vpap auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: resmed
Humidifier: h5i
CPAP Pressure: 17 / ?
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #5
RE: Waking up in middle of night terror can't breathe
I down loaded the software but haven't used it yet. I don't think I turned the machine off. Possibly.

I might not have been wearing my chin strap the night I had my panic attack, if that might have anything to do with it.
02-06-2015 10:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
archangle Offline
Wiki Editor
Advisory Members

Posts: 3,159
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift FX
Humidifier: ResMed S9 H5i
CPAP Pressure: 16-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Happy PAPper

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: USA

Post: #6
RE: Waking up in middle of night terror can't breathe
Are you using autostart? If you put the mask on, does the machine start automatically, or do you have to push the button.

It's possible that you're opening your mouth or otherwise having a large leak and the machine is shutting off because it thinks you've taken the mask off.

Unfortunately, ResMed doesn't allow you to turn on the Autostart feature without turning off the Autostop feature.

Wakeup and fix this, ResMed!!!!

If you install sleepyhead, you will be able to see if there's period of time of large leak before it shuts down.

If it happens again, try opening your mouth and breathing that way. Once you catch your wits, put your hand over the air vents, and see if you can feel the air flow like you can when the machine is on. That will tell you whether the machine has turned off for some reason. You may also feel air flow once you open your mouth, if the machine is running.

You should be able to breathe fairly normally with the FFM (full face mask,) even if the machine is turned off. The FFM will have an anti-asphyxia valve that lets you breathe outside air, even if there is no CPAP pressure.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
02-07-2015 04:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
Jim Bronson Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 264
Joined: Dec 2014

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Elite
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage FX
Humidifier: Built-in
CPAP Pressure: 9.2
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: California

Post: #7
RE: Waking up in middle of night terror can't breathe
I can breathe pretty well with the machine turned off, not quite as well as with the mask off, but well enough that I think I could sleep through a power failure. If I felt panic coming on, I could always simply start breathing through my mouth. I've never tried a FFM, but I would think it would be loose enough that you could just pull it away from your face until you are able to take it off by disconnecting the straps.
02-07-2015 08:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
Sleeprider Offline
Wiki Editor
Advisory Members

Posts: 3,340
Joined: Dec 2014

Machine: Resmed Aircurve 10 Vauto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
Humidifier: Resmed Climateline
CPAP Pressure: Auto Bilevel 18/9, PS 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Where they make Respironics

Post: #8
RE: Waking up in middle of night terror can't breathe
Jim, have you been evaluated for central apnea? If you're not breathing long enough for the machine to shut down, you need an adaptive servo ventilator (ASV) with timed breaths to ventilate you when you don't initiate a breath. Otherwise, I would recommend going into the therapy settings and turning auto off to 0. You do not want the machine to automatically stop. Some of us can use that setting to allow us to take of the mask and the machine will shut down. In your case, this seems like a bad idea.

If your situation is what I described earlier, contact your medical professional. You may need ventilation support for central apnea.

______________________________________________
Organize your SleepyHead Data
Post your SleepyHead Data from Imgur
Robysue's Beginner's Guide to Sleepyhead
02-07-2015 09:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
retired_guy Offline

Preferred Members-2

Posts: 2,744
Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
Humidifier: ResMed
CPAP Pressure: 10.6/14, EPR 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Is it bedtime yet?

Sex: Male
Location: Beautiful, albeit very wet Oregon Coast

Post: #9
RE: Waking up in middle of night terror can't breathe
Rylan, it sounds like you were not able to exhale as much as you inhaled. So in your "panic attack," it's not that you couldn't breath in, you were not able to completely breath out allowing for room to breath in. That's also known as "hyperventilating." That's why the breathing technique offered by your RT worked. Another modification to that is to do what is called "pursed breathing." That's where you put your lips together and exhale in puffs of air, like a choo-choo....

Revisit all your pressure settings and the differences between inhale pressure and exhale pressure. Also be aware that going from the pillows mask on your old machine to ffm on you new machine could have created some "breathing confusion" as well.

I would stay with the pillows mask if that has served you well in the past. If you need the chinstrap then use it as well. It sounds like you are well aware of how to make that sort of mask and chinstrap work for you, so there really isn't any compelling reason I have seen you mention why that should change.

Turn off the "auto on, auto off" stuff as suggested.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2015 09:22 PM by retired_guy.)
02-07-2015 09:20 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply

Donate to Apnea Board
Jim Bronson Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 264
Joined: Dec 2014

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Elite
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage FX
Humidifier: Built-in
CPAP Pressure: 9.2
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: California

Post: #10
RE: Waking up in middle of night terror can't breathe
(02-07-2015 09:19 PM)Sleeprider Wrote:  Jim, have you been evaluated for central apnea? If you're not breathing long enough for the machine to shut down, you need an adaptive servo ventilator (ASV) with timed breaths to ventilate you when you don't initiate a breath. Otherwise, I would recommend going into the therapy settings and turning auto off to 0. You do not want the machine to automatically stop. Some of us can use that setting to allow us to take of the mask and the machine will shut down. In your case, this seems like a bad idea.

If your situation is what I described earlier, contact your medical professional. You may need ventilation support for central apnea.
Sleeprider, sorry I wasn't more clear in my reply. My machine never shuts down, but I intentionally turned it off and tried to breathe in an effort to give feedback the OP. I had never tried it before and I was wondering whether I would awaken during a power failure. I don't think I would awaken unless I had an OA event or started snoring badly. Again, sorry for the confusion.
02-10-2015 10:33 PM
Find all posts by this user Post Reply Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Still waking up... can someone help? mcsheltie 13 420 12-01-2016 11:56 AM
Last Post: 49er
  Need help with waking up at 4am Judy1843 12 480 11-29-2016 05:36 PM
Last Post: Galactus
  Unaware of tearing off fask mask in the middle of my slep Ibiban 4 266 11-07-2016 06:59 AM
Last Post: lab rat
  "Clicking" sound when I breathe in... Ulrika 8 7,765 10-02-2016 08:24 PM
Last Post: FrankNichols
  Stuffy nose in the middle of the night Jim Bronson 20 1,430 09-15-2016 06:10 PM
Last Post: dwd1249
  Gap in data in middle of night? sclaire 5 361 09-12-2016 07:43 PM
Last Post: Mosquitobait
  Resp rate drop off before waking sclaire 8 448 09-11-2016 02:49 PM
Last Post: klv329

Forum Jump:

Who's Online (Complete List)