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Ethical dilemma or nosey parker
#1
I'm about 50 days into cpap therapy and feeling great. The latest Sleepyhead stats support this and are consitantly about the same.

Average sleep hours 6.5
Average AHI .61
Obstructive Index 0.14
Hypopnea Index 0.27
Clear Airway Index 0.00
Flow Limitation Index 1.21
RERA Index 0.60

I've learned to deal with airlines, camping, hotel rooms, understand Sleepyhead, clean the gear and finally figured out how to NOT change the humidity settings every time I turn the machine off. I'm extremely grateful for this community as the information, support and advice have been invaluable. And now the dilemma..

My DH also has a cpap and has been using it for a decade. I was the one who pushed him to see a sleep doc all those years ago. Now that I know what all those various sounds coming from a cpap are, I know that he is not getting the best result he could. Lots of leaks and he often knocks the head gear off during the night. He complains about being tired during the day and of morning headaches; it's likely that some change may be needed to his setup as he recently had a significant weight loss.

When I've tried to broach the idea that maybe some adjustment to his routine, or more likely headgear, might be in order his response is "my doc will let me know if there's an issue". As a long time cpap user however, he doesn't have his card read very often (about every two years). He's not really interested in knowing details or studying numbers, just trusts that what he has been prescribed is perfect. His prescription is not due to be renewed for another year and I believe that's the next time he'll have his card read. I suspect that his nightly numbers will show substantial issues. I have no idea what his prescription is but he has the same machine I do with a ResMed Mirage Swift nasal pillow/headgear.

I've offered to install sleepyhead on his computer and show him how to use it, but he is just not interested. I've suggested that he call his doc and have a visit. Not sure there's much more to be done here but the temptation to pull his card, have a look and then try again armed with concrete info is high.

So what to do?
1. Nothing
2. Continue to push him to see doc
3. Read the card, print the results and try convincing him to make a change

Or?

Any thoughts about this or leading a horse to water? Dont-know
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#2
(06-05-2015, 12:50 PM)sansnap Wrote: So what to do?
1. Nothing
2. Continue to push him to see doc
3. Read the card, print the results and try convincing him to make a change

3

you cannot stand #1 and he cannot stand #2

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#3
1. Nothing.

It sounds like he's just going to do what he thinks he ought to do no matter what.

So the best teacher is probably the "by example" thingy. The conversation would go something like this:


"Goshy, I've got a headache again this morning......."

"Oh gee dearest sweetie pie, that's so sad...... I don't have a headache, but then again, I'm making sure the cpap machine is working properly for me."

"How is that pumpkin?"

"Well, sugar apple dumpling, I look at my statistics each morning to be sure everything is working as it should. It's sort of like making sure the tool I have is the right one for the job, rather than just reaching blindly into the old tool box and perhaps grabbing a hammer instead of a screwdriver. You know, 'technical stuff?"

"Thank you my sweet precious yumpkin. I shall immediately review my statistics and learn how I too can maximize this therapy for the betterment of my health. Now then -- where would you like me to take you for dinner?"
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#4
I have a similar dilemna with one of my best friends. He had a psych episode a few years ago and crashed his adrenals. He is absolutely convinced he is going to die simply from not sleeping for a year. Even though he knows he has low D3, adrenal failure, zero thyroid function, and other easily treatable factors, he refuses all suggestions that his condition is treatable and insists that he will never get any better and he thinks he will soon die. all without seeing a doctor since rifht afyer his episode occurred. Its very difficult to watch someone you care about ignore their serious and treatable medical conditions... I do not know the answer, as we all know- you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.
Your case is a lot different though as this noise and disruption is affecting your own sleep.

I dont know this person like you do, but i would be hesitant to scan the card without permission. This could trigger a defensive reaction and some people are easily upset by things such as that. Perhaps approach it as a curiosity/ boredom thing... " hey im bored right now and curious about what your data looks like compared to mine" or... "Hey you kept me up half the night while you kept snorting and not breathing, mind if i take a look at your card?"
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#5
(06-05-2015, 12:50 PM)sansnap Wrote: So what to do?
1. Nothing
2. Continue to push him to see doc
3. Read the card, print the results and try convincing him to make a change

Or?

Any thoughts about this or leading a horse to water? Dont-know

His issues affect you. My suggestion to you is to tell him that either he sees the doctor, or you will contact his doctor's office and let them know that you have observed the following and believe he needs to be re-evaluated, probably needing a new machine.

I ran into this crap with my late Dad, currently with my disabled brother and with my mom. You want them to be in charge of their own care, but sometimes fear of something worse being identified is what's at hand. I get that. Every time I go to the doc it seems something new (and rare) is wrong with me. Just remind him that technology has advanced and he likely will get more comfort from newer technology than his old one. Just got my brother a new bipap and it has the same settings as the old one, but is clearly blowing a lot more air than his old one. It's really inadequate for a backup, but he insists on keeping it, so I just have to pick my battles.
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#6
I am a nosy parker, and would def do #3. everyone around me puts up with my nosy ways or leaves Bigwink
هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
Tongue Suck Technique for prevention of mouth breathing:
  • Place your tongue behind your front teeth on the roof of your mouth
  • let your tongue fill the space between the upper molars
  • gently suck to form a light vacuum
Practising during the day can help you to keep it at night

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
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#7
What if you looked at the data without asking and then, if the data does not show information worth fighting about, don't bring it up. If the data shows significant issues that you believe can be addressed, then ask him if you may look at his card. If he says no then say nothing and use another approach. I like Misquitobait's approach where you tell him if he doesn't see the doctor you will call his doctor and describe what you've been observing.
I also like the one from MadMike " Hey, you kept me up half the night while you kept snorting and not breathing ,mind if I take a look at your card?" Of course if there's no chance he'll look at the data even if you pull it, don't bother, it's hopeless.

My neighbor is like that. He refuses to use the machine even though he's a textbook case with all the resulting health issues. If you can't treat it with a pill, he's not interested. I can easily refrain from addressing the topic with him but when it's your husband, that's a whole different thing.
I wish you a good outcome.
if you can't decide then you don't have enough data.
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#8
There was another person here fighting same battle but don't recall hearing from her of late.
.
I recently destroyed a relationship with a friend butting in so I am trying really hard to mind my own biz. ;(
That said your IMO husbands health IS your biz.
.
I think I would flat out tell him by doing what you so reasonably ask of him - asking his doc for a consult he is showing disrespect for your concerns and if he collapses does he expect you to care for him because he brought it on to himself? If he refuses at that point you are married to someone I call malignant-stubborn and I have nothing else to offer.
I use my PAP machine nightly and I feel great!
Updated: Philips Respironics System One (60 Series)
RemStar BiPAP Auto with Bi-FlexModel 760P -
Rise Time x3 Fixed Bi-Level EPAP 9.0 IPAP 11.5 (cmH2O)
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#9
I opt for #3, but don't let him know you looked. Look at it, and put the card back.
Then at a later time, ask if he minded if you looked at his card to compare with yours.
Dodgy
OpalRose
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#10
Now that is nosey. I think you have to get permission first to be ethically sound. Medical treatment is never forced either (for adults in the USA not considered insane and not a lethal threat to themselves or others...sorry, poor xPAP compliance probably doesn't qualify).

We can't put folks in jail for being alcoholics or smokers, either. Sometimes the price of being free in a free country is higher than it should be and does not always work out the way we want it to. Freedom requires personal responsibility to work well, which seems to be what may be lacking here. That we are our brothers' keepers is good, but it does not always mean we have control over the process or the outcome.

But there should be consequences for them not agreeing to #3; complaints would get the hand from me. You can't complain to me about something you will not do to fix your own situation if you also won't follow what I consider the only good advice available.

I guess what is surprising is that you have your very own Designated Hitter. I always felt the DH is what ruined MLB.
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