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Eye pressure and full face masks
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PsychoMike Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Other
Mask Make & Model: Varies with mood, ResMed F10 is my primary
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CPAP Pressure: 12-17
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: asthma, cyclist upgraditis, just a little crazy (honest :D )

Sex: Male
Location: Alberta, Canada

Post: #11
RE: [split] Eye pressure and full face masks
(07-17-2014 06:44 PM)Lukie Wrote:  My eye pressures have gone up on cpap from 22/23 to 26/28 borderline glaucoma.

Lukie, from your profile it looks like that's not with a TFM like the FitLife. It also sounds like it's not uncommon either...some of the studies noted the same thing (whilst others cite the higher blood pressure often associated with untreated OSA for the exact same thing). It just seems like it's a "darned if you do and darned if you don't" thing when it comes to higher intra-occular pressures with OSA.

The human body is a wonderfully complex and frustrating piece of equipment that doesn't come with a Haynes or Chilton manual Sad
07-18-2014 11:33 AM
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tattoohead Offline

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Posts: 4
Joined: Jul 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Quattro FX
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 17/21
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post: #12
RE: [split] Eye pressure and full face masks
Thanks for all the replies! I would have gotten back here earlier, I had the setting to email me immediately when someone replied but I didn't receive anything.

The reason I ask is I have a FFM (Quattro FX) but it seems to leak right below my eyes causing major redness and soreness. My leak score (via S9 - just got it yesterday) is 100! Not good, I know.

My doctor and therapist are refusing to even consider the TFM because of my high pressures (17/21). They say the higher pressures will cause eye problems, although they don't elaborate on which problems, and basically told me yesterday that I would have to make the Quattro FX work for me or buy my own mask.

I've research what I could on the 'Net and couldn't find any instances of TFM and eye pressure problems.

BTW..where can I sell my S8? Not needed anymore.
07-19-2014 09:45 AM
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PaytonA Offline
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Posts: 3,005
Joined: Dec 2013

Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #13
RE: [split] Eye pressure and full face masks
I think that your doctor and therapist may be giving you a wild a***d guess (WAG the less knowledgeable version of a SWAG). The person to ask is an ophthalmologist. They may be being overly cautious due to lack of precise knowledge and avoidance of possible lawsuits.
07-19-2014 10:42 AM
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archangle Offline
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Posts: 3,159
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift FX
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CPAP Pressure: 16-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Happy PAPper

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: USA

Post: #14
Eye pressure and full face masks
I originally thought these concerns were a bit overblown. The pressure on the front part of the eyeball may not matter that much because, in some sense, the outside pressure goes up and the inside pressure would probably sort of track that pressure.

However, I realized that the damage from glaucoma comes at the back of the eye in the retina. The retina has the intraocular pressure on one side and the internal body pressure (blood and other tissue) on the other side. Basically, if you press on the front of the eye, the back of the eye presses against the retina.

A total face mask would probably increase the effective intraocular pressure in therms of the retina during usage. This would NOT show up on a glaucoma/intraoccular pressure test once the mask is removed. Also, the pressure of CPAP is about the same as normal intraocular pressure, so, in some sense, it could double your intraocular pressure.

Glaucoma's not that well understood, but it seems to me that the effective pressure increase on the retina during TFM usage might be a legitimate concern.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
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Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
07-19-2014 06:29 PM
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vsheline Offline

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Posts: 1,907
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F10 or SimPlus w/ 2Liners. MirageQuatro & Gecko gel pad
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 15 EPAP, PS 5-10
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Marfan Syndrome, chronic bradycardia, occasional Cheyne-Stokes Respiration

Sex: Male
Location: California, USA

Post: #15
RE: [split] Eye pressure and full face masks
(07-19-2014 09:45 AM)tattoohead Wrote:  The reason I ask is I have a FFM (Quattro FX) but it seems to leak right below my eyes causing major redness and soreness. My leak score (via S9 - just got it yesterday) is 100! Not good, I know.

When using the ResMed Quattro FX or the ResMed Airfit F10, I suggest using a mask liner.

For me the mask liner completely eliminates bothersome leaking around the eyes. I use RemZzz but plan to make my own in future.

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
07-19-2014 08:29 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Posts: 3,005
Joined: Dec 2013

Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #16
RE: [split] Eye pressure and full face masks
Are you talking about leakage that goes into the eyes ar leakage that comes out of the tear ducts?
07-19-2014 09:21 PM
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tattoohead Offline

Members

Posts: 4
Joined: Jul 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Quattro FX
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 17/21
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post: #17
RE: [split] Eye pressure and full face masks
I'm talking about leakage of the mask around the bridge of my nose that goes into my eyes while I'm sleeping. Hurts like heck when I first wake up.
07-19-2014 10:11 PM
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tattoohead Offline

Members

Posts: 4
Joined: Jul 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Quattro FX
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 17/21
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Post: #18
RE: [split] Eye pressure and full face masks
(07-19-2014 08:29 PM)vsheline Wrote:  When using the ResMed Quattro FX or the ResMed Airfit F10, I suggest using a mask liner.

For me the mask liner completely eliminates bothersome leaking around the eyes. I use RemZzz but plan to make my own in future.

Wow! Do mask liners really help that much? I see them on eBay for $32 for 30ct. That seems like a lot of clams. How could something made from cloth prevent leaks?

It would seem to me that to prevent leaks, you'd have to get something sticky. Dont-know
07-19-2014 10:20 PM
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vsheline Offline

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Posts: 1,907
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F10 or SimPlus w/ 2Liners. MirageQuatro & Gecko gel pad
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 15 EPAP, PS 5-10
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Marfan Syndrome, chronic bradycardia, occasional Cheyne-Stokes Respiration

Sex: Male
Location: California, USA

Post: #19
RE: [split] Eye pressure and full face masks
(07-19-2014 10:20 PM)tattoohead Wrote:  [quote='vsheline' pid='76701' dateline='1405819758']

Wow! Do mask liners really help that much? I see them on eBay for $32 for 30ct. That seems like a lot of clams. How could something made from cloth prevent leaks?

The cloth material completely stops raspberries (also known as face burps or face f*rts).

The amount of air which softly leaks through the cloth material is very minor, softer and not very noticeable.

The problem with mask liners is they tend to touch the eye lashes, which is bothersome. But careful and gentile pulling on the liner to pull or fold it a little away from the eyelashes and toward the bridge of the nose is enough to keep the liner from touching my eye lashes.

As always, Your Mileage May Vary.

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2014 11:01 PM by vsheline.)
07-19-2014 10:55 PM
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becker44a Offline

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Posts: 181
Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus Lg
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CPAP Pressure: Rx 10 - 20cm, Usually 10-14cm
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: NE Ohio, USA

Post: #20
RE: [split] Eye pressure and full face masks
(07-19-2014 10:20 PM)tattoohead Wrote:  
(07-19-2014 08:29 PM)vsheline Wrote:  When using the ResMed Quattro FX or the ResMed Airfit F10, I suggest using a mask liner.

For me the mask liner completely eliminates bothersome leaking around the eyes. I use RemZzz but plan to make my own in future.

Wow! Do mask liners really help that much? I see them on eBay for $32 for 30ct. That seems like a lot of clams. How could something made from cloth prevent leaks?

It would seem to me that to prevent leaks, you'd have to get something sticky. Dont-know

Hi tattoohead,
As a mouth-breather, I started PAP therapy this January using a ResMed Mirage Quattro FFM. Initially, my pressure was going fairly high, up around the Max setting (first 14, then 20). Obviously, the higher pressures will worsen the leaks. To control the leaks, I tried a variety of methods with the Mirage Quattro, ending up by cinching it pretty tight, more than was comfortable. The leaks I hated the worst were near the bridge of my nose, right by my eyes.

Two things have happened to improve the situation: I discovered that if I avoid sleeping on my back, my AHI and pressures decreased substantially. My machine is still set for a range of 10 - 20, but the pressure rarely exceeds 15. Some nights, the max is as low as 13. My AHI is consistently averaging less than 1.0, where before it was a struggle to get below 10. The second thing, I finally gave up on the Mirage, and have now switched to a F&P Simplus, and it is MUCH more comfortable. It has very low leakage most of the time. I have seen a few nights where all four leak numbers were 0.0!

I recently started experimenting with Mask liners, first the Remzzz, now a Pad-A-Cheek. For me, the mask liner helps absorb skin oil and moisture, which improves the sealing. It also acts like a form of diffuser, so any minor leakage (especially around the eyes) seems to be more gentle, not like an annoying stream. With the Remzzzs. I have been able to use them for as much as 4 nights. I have run some thru the laundry (in a mesh bag), and am now trying the laundered ones - so far so good.

As far as expense, I found the Remzzzs for about $25 for a 30-pack w/ free shipping. If I can average 5 uses each, that would reduce the expense to less than 20 cents per day - quite tolerable.

I also bought a Pad-A-Cheek liner for the Simplus, and I'm trying that as wll. It seems to have slightly more leakage than the Remzzzs, but still very low. Most nights, my median leak in Sleepyhead is 0.0, and the 95% leak is less than 5.

Obviously everyone's face is different, but I would recommend a trial of the Simplus when you are due for a new mask - the difference from the Mirage was very significant. I would also recommend trying the mask liners. The Remzzz people will send you a trial package for free to see how it works for you.

Good luck . . .

A.Becker
PAPing in NE Ohio, with a pack of Cairn terriers
07-20-2014 01:33 PM
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