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F30 Full Face Mask - total failure??
#11
RE: F30 Full Face Mask - total failure??
I am a p30i/n30i user.  AHI anywhere from .4 to 2.5 (usually 1.x).  I'm not a mouth breather, but my mouth will pop open at some point while sleeping, so I tape my mouth with cover roll.  I bought an F30i as a "just in case" if i got a cold etc.  I also thought that it might work out overall so I wouldn't have to tape my mouth. I tried it for a night and my AHI doubled.  Somewhere in the high 3's which overall isn't bad. I did have a tough time sleeping with it, which I would have to get used to.  The strange thing was the puffy cheeks.  I tried mouth breathing a bit and my cheeks puffed out so much.  This was at a pressure of 7cm.  I don't understand how folks can mouth-breathe with a FFM.  Gonna stick to the pillows/cushion/mouth tape.
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#12
RE: F30 Full Face Mask - total failure??
BobH56 welcome to the forum!

I'm in Ontario too; London a long while ago and MrsSauga now, just out of Toronto.

You have a great machine. I have an S10 for her model. ResMed N20 mask for several years. I've experimented with other masks in the last 6 months or so. Bought an N30i nasal mask from ResMed. Bought an F&P Evora Full full face mask too. I can't use either. Like you my AHI changes based on the mask used. I don't know why. Heck when I went from my S9E to my S10 my AHI went way up. It settled down after quite a while.

Do you have a good sleep doc?
Do you have a good equipment supplier? Do they provide loaner masks for you to try?

DaveL
DaveL
compliant for 35 years /// Still learning!

ResMed N20; ResMed P30i modified headgear; F&P Evora Full FFM



I'm just a cpap user like you. I don't give medical advice. Seek the advice of a physician before seeking treatment for medical conditions including sleep apnea. Sleep-well

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#13
RE: F30 Full Face Mask - total failure??
Thanks for both of the above replies.  I am new to all of this, only have been using a machine for 1 month.

I was using an N30 nasal cushion mask and had a high leak rate which I thought was impacting treatment.
I suspected that my mouth opening during sleep was the cause of the leaks so I tried a chin strap which then caused OSAs to increase
and mouth taping which did the same.  

So I thought I'd try a full face mask.. It stopped the leaks but my AHI went way, way up!

However I had a revelation.. I was always sleeping on my back since I felt it had the least chance of disrupting the mask.
It was suggested that this is the worst position for OSA so I tried side sleeping with the N30 nasal cushion mask and eureka!  AHI went down to 1.2
with minimal leaks!!    So I am now using the N30 with good success.  

With the full face mask I had only tried back sleeping and someone who reviewed my chart suggested my pressure
was way too low for that mask. 
At some point I may try it again, first by side sleeping, and then possibly increasing my upper pressure range to see what happens.
At the moment I don't want to even try it given the awful results I experienced but will experiment further in the future.
For now side sleeping with the N30 works.

I wish I had a supplier that would let me experiment with differing masks but it seems one must buy one, then you have 30 days
to exchange for another.  They charge you double for this option it seems as online options are roughly 50% less.
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#14
RE: F30 Full Face Mask - total failure??
Someone already mentioned it but you have positional apnea. Tightly group O or H events show positional apnea. 

Positional apnea is when your body gets into a position that cuts off your own airway. There is no pressure change that will help. You have to find a way not to get into that position. 

It happens when your chin drops down to your Sternum cutting off your own airway. It happens in all sleep positions but more on your back. You may have slept on to high of a pillow. Again, forcing you chin to drop to your sternum. 

If it continues to happen MANY people here have found a collar helps a great deal. I have a link to collars in my signature. Please take a look - it shows people without a collar and the same people with collars, a huge difference!!
Apnea (80-100%) 10 seconds, Hypopnea (50-80%) 10 seconds, Flow Limits (0-50%) not timed  Cervical Collar - Dealing w DME - Chart Organizing
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#15
RE: F30 Full Face Mask - total failure??
Thank you for your comment on positional apnea.  Someone did use that term but to be honest I didn't understand the significance.
I certainly now understand from first hand (but minimal) experience that sleep position can have a huge impact on results.

I will indeed pursue more info on cervical collars as a possible adjunct to therapy, more to learn. Not sure if that would make a full face mask useable 
for me, but now that the N30 seems to work (AHI of 1.3) its less of a pressing matter.

The apparent statement that 50%+ of CPAP users quit within a year I think comes from
they get a machine and then there is little follow up support to ensure its working optimally. Unless someone makes the effort
on their own accord to seek out support as found in forums like this I can see why that would be the case.  It takes time to work
out what actually works in real practice.

On to reading about C collars......
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#16
RE: F30 Full Face Mask - total failure??
BobH56 my DME supplier will let me borrow masks for a week. Toronto. Oakville.
Cost is high. So I put my purchases through benefits, so far.

DaveL
DaveL
compliant for 35 years /// Still learning!

ResMed N20; ResMed P30i modified headgear; F&P Evora Full FFM



I'm just a cpap user like you. I don't give medical advice. Seek the advice of a physician before seeking treatment for medical conditions including sleep apnea. Sleep-well

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#17
RE: F30 Full Face Mask - total failure??
If it is allowed here I'd appreciate knowing the name of the DME in the Oakville/Mississauga area where you can try masks for a week.
I'm in Milton area and the DME I used charged 200%+  for masks and allowed one change within 30 days.

Thank you.
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#18
RE: F30 Full Face Mask - total failure??
The comments about positional apnea led me to read and learn about that.

This led to much improved results when I switched to side sleeping with the N30 Nasal mask where I had been exclusively back sleeping.
AHI went down from an average 6.0 to 2.5 and even lower.
But I could tell I was still getting mouth leaks with the N30 from the extreme dryness in my mouth at times.  I'd also hoped by reducing the mask leaks I'd also get a better result.

So I thought I'd give the F30 full face mask one more try but side sleep with it this time.    The change in results were all but stunning, to me at least.
F30 AHI was almost 30 when I back slept but dropped to 0.7 when I side slept, my best result ever!

I would never have figured this out with the input of this forum, thank you.
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#19
RE: F30 Full Face Mask - total failure??
The comments about positional apnea led me to read and learn about that.

This led to much improved results when I switched to side sleeping with the N30 Nasal mask where I had been exclusively back sleeping.
AHI went down from an average 6.0 to 2.5 and even lower.
But I could tell I was still getting mouth leaks with the N30 from the extreme dryness in my mouth at times.  I'd also hoped by reducing the mask leaks I'd also get a better result.

So I thought I'd give the F30 full face mask one more try but side sleep with it this time.    The change in results were all but stunning, to me at least.
F30 AHI was almost 30 when I back slept but dropped to 0.7 when I side slept, my best result ever!

I would never have figured this out with the input of this forum, thank you.


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#20
RE: F30 Full Face Mask - total failure??
The F30 can be a hit or miss mask. I generally can get along with anything, though I have a big nose, so the "new generation" of masks / pillows with slits (like the F30) can give me grief.

I'll agree...a lot of folks end up sleeping differently with a FFM as they are easier to dislodge as a side or tummy sleeper. I tend toward a Brevida these days, with an F20 as my "for a change" / "have a cold" mask. I do tend to be more of a side / back sleeper with a FFM because it's harder to bury it into a soft pillow and easier to knock around otherwise. If you have a positionally sensitive OSa, then this could trigger bad nights.

The cheek puff-outs are fairly common with a ffm, especially if the pressure is getting up there. Smile

Sleep well
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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