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FALSE TRIGGERS
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cowboy1970 Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 66
Joined: Jun 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Puritan Bennett Breeze
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: around 11 now (2/20/13)
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Try not to think about a spider crawling up your nose from inside your tubing as your drift off. lol

Sex: Male
Location: Tacoma, WA

Post: #1
FALSE TRIGGERS
Hi guys.

First off let me say that I really appreciate the faithful consistent responders on this forums. Everyone seems very friendly and helpful.

I am kinda new to CPAP therapy. I am wondering if false triggers have been discussed. If so, please post the forum link in this thread.

I did a search and couldn't find any discussion on it.

Anyway, I am wondering if your clinicians have given you any advice on what can cause your machine to register apnea or hyponea that isn't truly happening.

For instance, I press my button to blow out my system at least twice every night before I put my mask on. I let it blow until it shuts off automatically. Would this register an apnea event?

Second, I tend to wake up after six hours or so and pull my mask off and let it shut off automatically. Would this trigger anything?

Will your mouth opening while using nasal pillows cause a false trigger, if so what type?

I have been getting really low readings lately. AHI of .1, .6, 1.3 and so one. even had a 0.0 during 6 hours.

I think that I tend to have my apnea during the early morning hours, so I am trying to stop the habit of waking up and pulling my mask off. Sometimes it is to get up to go to the restroom and sometimes it's just done without even knowing I am doing it.

It is my understanding that an obstructive apnea is when your throat closes. A central apnea is when your brain tells you to stop breathing. A hyponea is when there is a narrowing of the throat causing shallow breathing. I was told my S9 sends a wave of air and if it doesn't bounce back, it triggers a central code. If the air bouces back, it triggers an obstructive code. Please correct any of this info.

Let me thank you in advance for your time and consideration in this matter.
02-12-2013 12:34 AM
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zonk Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 7,908
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: A10 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Activa LT
Humidifier: Integrated /ClimateLineAir
CPAP Pressure: 9/13
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: CPAP since Nov 2010

Sex: Male
Location: Australia

Post: #2
RE: FALSE TRIGGERS
here are some linkage about CSA detection, much better than me trying to type and make a mess
http://www.s9morecomfort.com/s9morecomfo...toset.html

Central Sleep Apnea Detection and the Enhanced AutoSet Algorithm (white paper)
http://www.resmed.com/au/assets/document...-paper.pdf

try chinstrap, chinstrap helps minimize mouth leaks

the S9 cannot tell if you,re awake or asleep also score unknown apnea shown as yellow flag on ResScan
during leak above 30 L/min as the S9 cannot tell whether the apnea is obstructive or central
02-12-2013 02:09 AM
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PaulaO2 Offline
Wiki Editor
Moderators

Posts: 8,065
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type; chronic sarcasm

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #3
RE: FALSE TRIGGERS
Before I forget, I deleted your duplicate thread.

I would assume that you are using AutoStart or SenseAwake or whatever it is called?

Removing the mask will not trigger an event but it will show a leak.

And yes, that's how the S9 Autoset works.

Consider using either ResScan or SleepyHead software to view your data. That way you can see when the events happen and what you may be able to do about them.

An AHI of that low is of course very possible.

PaulaO2
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
02-12-2013 02:17 AM
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archangle Offline
Wiki Editor
Advisory Members

Posts: 3,159
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift FX
Humidifier: ResMed S9 H5i
CPAP Pressure: 16-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Happy PAPper

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: USA

Post: #4
RE: FALSE TRIGGERS
Running the machine with the mask off may show up as a leak. It won't show an apnea.

If you're awake, the apneas don't really mean much. Even a "normal" person will have "apneas" while awake and they aren't harmful to your health. So, if you take a lot of time to go to sleep, or wake up and take a while falling back to sleep, you'll get some false readings that way.

If I look at my own data, sometimes I see something the machine calls an apnea or hypopnea that I don't consider to be "real" apneas, but something was going on with my breathing. There usually aren't enough of these per night to worry about.

I find it useful to look at the airflow waveforms, not just the AHI and event counts. Long apneas are more meaningful than short ones. Completely stopping breathing is more important than events where you are still getting some air into your lungs.

Even when you consider these factors, the overall numbers are usually pretty accurate and the false readings are small enough to not matter. Some people obsess over reducing their AHI from 2 to 0. That's usually meaningless in terms of health.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
02-12-2013 01:29 PM
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cowboy1970 Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 66
Joined: Jun 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Puritan Bennett Breeze
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: around 11 now (2/20/13)
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Try not to think about a spider crawling up your nose from inside your tubing as your drift off. lol

Sex: Male
Location: Tacoma, WA

Post: #5
RE: FALSE TRIGGERS
ok, I gotta admit something embarrassing here...

After I posted this thread, I called my oldest brother. He is 12 years older than me and he's been encouraging me in my therapy. My goal is to avoid some of the things he has faced.

Anyway, he clued me into the fact that I haven't been pulling up my 'Detail Graphs' in ResScan. lol, apparently this is like 80% of the most important info because it allows you to see when and to what extent the events are happening through the night. I have only been looking at the 'Statistics' page. My bad. This, of course, shows the challenges that I face as a 'underground' user versus someone who gets to meet with a clinician. Of course, the medical industry feels that only a licensed clinician should be using ResScan and interpreting it to the patient. I am sure most here dissagree.

Thanks for the links and the advice.

Which software do you guys prefer? ResScan or Sleepyhead or what?

Side note: It was very hard at first for me to fall asleep with my CPAP machine going. Especially before I got my S9. I have always been a fan of audio books, while driving, walking, and mindless work like mowing the lawn or gardening. So when I started this therapy, I started listening to audio books as I tried to fall asleep.

I have done the Hunger Games Trilogy (Loved the books, hated the movie), all the Game of Thrones books (I am in the process of editing a clean version of the TV series for my teen kids to watch, two episodes done so far. I feel there is little chance that Martin will finish this series before his death. lol, maybe CPAP therapy will help him live long enough to prove me wrong.),
about 26 Deathlands novels (been a fan years before that one movie came out that was horribly bad, that series would make an awesome Sliders/Quantum Leap/Stargate type of show with the right cast and budget),
Stackhouse series,
Potter series,
John Dies at the End (read book first then saw the movie and it did not translate well at all),
Star Wars,
World War Z (the book was great, but saw the trailer and boy is that movie going to suck),
The Revolution by Paul,
End the Fed,
Puppet Master (very different than the movie that I liked),
and I am currently going through some old Ray Bradbury stuff (I really enjoyed the Martian Chronicles growing up).

Any tips from you guys as to what you use to help you fall asleep while using these mini iron lungs? ..besides marathon sex, alchohol, or sleeping pills? (those are a given, in fact all three at once and you just might not wake up)
02-12-2013 03:43 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
Wiki Editor
Moderators

Posts: 8,065
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type; chronic sarcasm

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #6
RE: FALSE TRIGGERS
Google "sleep hygiene". Listening or reading books in bed is not a good idea. Especially if your body is accustomed to being active while listening to them. It's not going to want to go to sleep.

Sit up during the day with the mask and machine on. This will help you get used to the sensations.

I much prefer SleepyHead to ResScan. I think it goes more to the point rather than concentrate on compliance. I used both for two months and finally stopped using ResScan.

OT: I tried to read World War Z but just could not get into it. Interesting concept though, of how it was written.

PaulaO2
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
02-12-2013 04:15 PM
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zonk Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 7,908
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: A10 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Activa LT
Humidifier: Integrated /ClimateLineAir
CPAP Pressure: 9/13
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: CPAP since Nov 2010

Sex: Male
Location: Australia

Post: #7
RE: FALSE TRIGGERS
(02-12-2013 03:43 PM)cowboy1970 Wrote:  Any tips
last night went to bed feeling completely worn out from gardening and loping some tree branches in the back yard
slept for solid 8 hours and still feel the aches and pain, going to take it easy today but still got to get rid of the garden waste
no rest for the wicked Too-funny

this might help, Tips for a quality night's sleep
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...ht-s-sleep

Sleep Hygiene...Helpful Hints
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-Sleep-Hygiene-Helpful-Hints
02-12-2013 05:28 PM
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