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FFM Vs. Nose Pillows - Is there a pressure difference?
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Tsparky Offline

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Joined: Apr 2015

Machine: Resmed 10 Airsense Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Pakel Simplus
Humidifier: Resmed 10 Airsense
CPAP Pressure: 14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Post: #1
FFM Vs. Nose Pillows - Is there a pressure difference?
RESMED Airsense 10 Autoset with Fisher & Paykel Simplus Vs. RESMED P10 Nasal Pillows:

With a FFM my mouth opens in the mask and air escapes into the mask and exits out the larger mask port holes - feels like less pressure delivered to my sinus, throat, lungs, etc., with the NP, smaller port holes, I receive the same pressure up the nose with no air escaping my mouth but the NP pressure feels much stronger to my sinus, throat, lungs, etc..

RESMED Airsense 10 Autoset has settings for 3 types of masks: FFM, NP, and Nose Mask not sure how or if the pressure delivery is set for each type mask - any thoughts? It also has Expiratory Pressure Relief (EPR) which maintains the optimal treatment for the patient during inhalation and reduces pressure during exhalation. My question references the anatomy and physiology of the nose and throat in relation to the same pressure of 14 CM delivered but the holes in the FFM are larger letting out more air volume faster while incoming air enters both the mouth and nose - constant stream of air is always exiting the mask holes. Seems the NP delivers air only through the nose and with the smaller relief holes it would create more back pressure - again thoughts? The NP only lets out air through the smaller relief holes when I exhale. To me it feels like a LOT more pressure with the NP in both my nose and sinuses. No leaks with either the FFM or the NP.

With NP the increased pressure points are inside my sinuses, throat, lungs not in my nostrils at all - so no ballooning effect to the nostrils. There is more air coming out of the FFM port ALL the time and less out of the NP all the time with almost no air out the NP port when inhaling. I'm trying to understand the physics of CPAP so no explanation would be too technical for me... I searched this site and the web but found no data discussing my issue.

Is anyone using similar equipment? Similar experience?
05-01-2015 04:44 AM
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worn_out_in_lebanon Offline

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Joined: Jan 2015

Machine: Resmed A10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F20 (newest Resmed ffm)
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CPAP Pressure: 13-15, EPR:0
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Other Comments: I.T. Project Manager. Started CPAP therapy March 16, 2015. Untreated AHI 39.

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Location: TN

Post: #2
RE: FFM Vs. Nose Pillows - Is there a pressure difference?
I can't explain why. I suspect it's more effective/efficient delivery, but the mechanics of it, I don't know.
Just what I observed when I switched from a ffm (Resmed Quattro Air) to a nasal pillow (Resmed Airfit P10).
I went from 10-15 (ffm), to 7-9 (nasal pillow).
05-01-2015 06:04 AM
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truetopath Offline

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Machine: PR system one 560p auto with a flex
Mask Type: Full face mask
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Humidifier: PR system one
CPAP Pressure: 11
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Lake View, NY

Post: #3
RE: FFM Vs. Nose Pillows - Is there a pressure difference?
I would imagine there would have to be a manufacturing standard for accurate pressure across the board for all masks. While the nasal pillows deliver more direct pressure, I do feel the air flowing into my nose with both the ffm and nasal masks. I didn't have to adjust my pressure when adjusting to pillows, and now my AHI is consistently under 1.
05-01-2015 06:58 AM
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zonk Offline

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Machine: A10 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
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Sex: Male
Location: Australia

Post: #4
RE: FFM Vs. Nose Pillows - Is there a pressure difference?
(05-01-2015 04:44 AM)Tsparky Wrote:  RESMED Airsense 10 Autoset with Fisher & Paykel Simplus Vs. RESMED P10 Nasal Pillows:

With a FFM my mouth opens in the mask and air escapes into the mask and exits out the larger mask port holes - feels like less pressure delivered to my sinus, throat, lungs, etc., with the NP, smaller port holes, I receive the same pressure up the nose with no air escaping my mouth but the NP pressure feels much stronger to my sinus, throat, lungs, etc..
Not quite, the air escaping through the mask holes is your exhalation, also does not matter if your mouth open while using FFM, you can still breathe thru your mouth without any loss to your therapy

Full face masks, nasal masks, and nasal pillows masks have different vents leak rate at varying mask pressure
For example at pressure 12, the flow rate vary from mask to mask
FFM = 41 L/m
Nasal = 34 L/m
Nasal pillows = 37 L/m

Unlike other machines report total leak, ResMed machines report unintentional leak
The mask selection helps the machine to calculate unintentional leak
05-01-2015 07:28 AM
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Tsparky Offline

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Posts: 7
Joined: Apr 2015

Machine: Resmed 10 Airsense Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Pakel Simplus
Humidifier: Resmed 10 Airsense
CPAP Pressure: 14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #5
RE: FFM Vs. Nose Pillows - Is there a pressure difference?
(05-01-2015 07:28 AM)zonk Wrote:  
(05-01-2015 04:44 AM)Tsparky Wrote:  RESMED Airsense 10 Autoset with Fisher & Paykel Simplus Vs. RESMED P10 Nasal Pillows:

With a FFM my mouth opens in the mask and air escapes into the mask and exits out the larger mask port holes - feels like less pressure delivered to my sinus, throat, lungs, etc., with the NP, smaller port holes, I receive the same pressure up the nose with no air escaping my mouth but the NP pressure feels much stronger to my sinus, throat, lungs, etc..
Not quite, the air escaping through the mask holes is your exhalation, also does not matter if your mouth open while using FFM, you can still breathe thru your mouth without any loss to your therapy

Full face masks, nasal masks, and nasal pillows masks have different vents leak rate at varying mask pressure
For example at pressure 12, the flow rate vary from mask to mask
FFM = 41 L/m
Nasal = 34 L/m
Nasal pillows = 37 L/m

Unlike other machines report total leak, ResMed machines report unintentional leak
The mask selection helps the machine to calculate unintentional leak

Lots of air is always escaping the vent holes with the FFM while either inhaling or exhaling. The RESMED compensating for different mask types seems to make sense. Anyone know where I can fined the "vent leak rate" for specific masks?
05-01-2015 10:33 AM
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PaytonA Online
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Post: #6
RE: FFM Vs. Nose Pillows - Is there a pressure difference?
The vent rate at given pressures is usually found in a table in the user's guide that came with the mask.
05-01-2015 10:40 AM
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Tsparky Offline

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Posts: 7
Joined: Apr 2015

Machine: Resmed 10 Airsense Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Pakel Simplus
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Post: #7
RE: FFM Vs. Nose Pillows - Is there a pressure difference?
(05-01-2015 10:40 AM)PaytonA Wrote:  The vent rate at given pressures is usually found in a table in the user's guide that came with the mask.

A big THANKS!
05-01-2015 10:47 AM
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PsychoMike Offline

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Posts: 551
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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
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Mask Make & Model: Varies with mood, ResMed F10 is my primary
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Post: #8
RE: FFM Vs. Nose Pillows - Is there a pressure difference?
Personal observation...the more "dead air space" in a mask, the more pressure can change before you feel it. When I'm using pillows at the same pressure as my total face mask (tfm), the pillows feel a little bit like they are being blown off my face to start and the transition between inhale and exhale (I use the Resmed EPR function) feels a bit more dramatic. My tfm "buffers" that a bit more due to its volume...makes it less noticeable.
05-01-2015 11:56 AM
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Tsparky Offline

Members

Posts: 7
Joined: Apr 2015

Machine: Resmed 10 Airsense Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Pakel Simplus
Humidifier: Resmed 10 Airsense
CPAP Pressure: 14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #9
RE: FFM Vs. Nose Pillows - Is there a pressure difference?
(05-01-2015 07:28 AM)zonk Wrote:  
(05-01-2015 04:44 AM)Tsparky Wrote:  RESMED Airsense 10 Autoset with Fisher & Paykel Simplus Vs. RESMED P10 Nasal Pillows:

With a FFM my mouth opens in the mask and air escapes into the mask and exits out the larger mask port holes - feels like less pressure delivered to my sinus, throat, lungs, etc., with the NP, smaller port holes, I receive the same pressure up the nose with no air escaping my mouth but the NP pressure feels much stronger to my sinus, throat, lungs, etc..
Not quite, the air escaping through the mask holes is your exhalation, also does not matter if your mouth open while using FFM, you can still breathe thru your mouth without any loss to your therapy

Full face masks, nasal masks, and nasal pillows masks have different vents leak rate at varying mask pressure
For example at pressure 12, the flow rate vary from mask to mask
FFM = 41 L/m
Nasal = 34 L/m
Nasal pillows = 37 L/m

Unlike other machines report total leak, ResMed machines report unintentional leak
The mask selection helps the machine to calculate unintentional leak

RESMED Airsense 10 Autoset:

Fisher & Paykel Simplus 40 L/m at 14 CM
RESMED P10 Nasal Pillows 40L/m at 14 CM

Both FFM and NP are exactly the same. I will have to ask my RT, N and Dr for their expert opinion. Feels like a LOT more pressure with the NP.
05-01-2015 01:08 PM
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trish6hundred Offline

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Post: #10
RE: FFM Vs. Nose Pillows - Is there a pressure difference?
HI Tsparky,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
Hang in there for more responses to your post and much success to you with your CPAP therapy.

trish6hundred
05-01-2015 02:38 PM
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