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First night wearing FF mask - arrgh
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Jim Bronson Online

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Joined: Dec 2014

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Elite
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage FX
Humidifier: Built-in
CPAP Pressure: 9.2
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: California

Post: #1
First night wearing FF mask - arrgh
I tried my Resmed Quattro mask last night. I always thought the reason to wear a FF mask was so that if the mouth drops open, the air won't rush out, thus reducing the value of the therapy (and usually causing an arousal.) However with the Quattro, the hose inlet is just in front of the mouth, so that when the mouth opens, air rushes forcefully into the mouth. For me, this causes extreme dryness of the mouth and tongue. It took a long time for my tongue to return to normal afterward.

So I'm wondering whether others have this problem and how you deal with it. In the meantime, I'm going back to my nasal mask and try the tape technique.
09-17-2015 07:09 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Posts: 4,995
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed AirCurve10 VAuto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: HumidAir and SlimLine Hose
CPAP Pressure: MaxI 13.6 | MinE 5.2 | PS 4.4
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

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Location: Houston, Texas

Post: #2
RE: First night wearing FF mask - arrgh
Think about it this way, Jim. With a nasal mask air can escape through your mouth, not because your mouth is open, but because a gap opens between the roof of your mouth and the back of your tongue. There's high pressure behind the gap, low pressure in front, and air escapes. With a full face mask the pressure is equal on both sides of that gap, so it doesn't matter if the gap is open or if you close it. Either way, air won't escape.

Maybe you could try a different type of full face mask. The Simplus is good, and so is the Amara. Both are relatively new.

Tape is a really bad idea, in my opinion. Maybe the dry mouth will subside as you adapt. Do you get dry mouth with a nasal mask?

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-17-2015 07:54 PM
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Dagmar Offline

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Posts: 98
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Wisp by Respironics
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CPAP Pressure: 10
CPAP Software: ResScan

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Location: Michigan

Post: #3
RE: First night wearing FF mask - arrgh
I look forward to some replies on this, it sounds like a rough night. I'm planning on trying a full face mask.
09-17-2015 07:54 PM
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surferdude2 Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Mirage Quattro & Optilife
Humidifier: ResMed H5i @ #3 if nose breathing & #5 if mouth breathing
CPAP Pressure: 12 ~ 20 & 11 ~12 if nasal mask
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Late stage 2 emphysema

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Location: Mousetown, Southern Illinois

Post: #4
RE: First night wearing FF mask - arrgh
I had a problem with dry mouth when I first started CPAP therapy and using a Resmed Mirage Quattro FF mask. I took steps to prevent it and haven't had a problem since. Here's what I found to be effective for me.

First, to get immediate stop gap relief, I started using the humidifier. I set it at the maximum setting until I later arrived at a lower setting that worked. I have since found that I don't need the humidifier except during winter months but that was after I solved my nasal restriction problem and am able to nose breathe. Read on as to how I did that.

Second, and most important, it was necessary for me to take steps to enhance my nasal breathing capacity. That required me to use a daily nasal rinse to thoroughly clean my nasal area. No big deal, just a few quick sprays up each nostril with some saline solution and a quick snort to clean it out. That provided a great deal more nasal breathing capacity but still not enough. Then I found what really saved the day for me. It's Nasacort nasal spray and was recommended by my ENT. He said I can take it daily for as long as I need it. It has none of the ill effects of the common nasal sprays and does no harm with extended use. It was a lifesaver for me and made all the difference in the world as to how I was able to tolerate the mask and how I feel in general.

Lastly, for nighttime use only, I use a nasal insert device called Sleep Right. I get it from Walgreens drug store locally. It expands the inside of the nose much better than the external adhesive strips and works better also. The dry mouth problem is a thing of the past and the feeling of well being that nasal breathing has restored for me is wonderful.

All that, along with the home-made nose bridge liner made from tee-shirt material, and I'm able to get along with the Mirage Quattro pretty well. Life is good and instead of dreading to go to bed, I now look forward to it.

This is not to say that a FF mask is something I will ever love, but if I must use one, I have at least managed to minimize the discomfort as much as possible.

Dude
09-17-2015 08:55 PM
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Ghost1958 Offline

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Posts: 957
Joined: Aug 2014

Machine: PRS1 Series Sixty Auto Aflex
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Eson
Humidifier: PRS1 with Heated Hose
CPAP Pressure: 10.5 min 16 max
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Moderate to Severe SA Obstructive. Rapid O2 desat off the machine.

Sex: Male
Location: KY

Post: #5
RE: First night wearing FF mask - arrgh
I guess im strange but if I could get the same one and under AHI with the lower pressures wirh a ffm that i do with a nasal mask, id prefer a simplus or fitlife to a nasal mask because i need a chin strap with nasal.
But ffm simply has to have about 5 more cmh2o than the Eson nasal i use to get near the same AHI
09-17-2015 09:15 PM
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surferdude2 Offline

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Joined: Jul 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Mirage Quattro & Optilife
Humidifier: ResMed H5i @ #3 if nose breathing & #5 if mouth breathing
CPAP Pressure: 12 ~ 20 & 11 ~12 if nasal mask
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Late stage 2 emphysema

Sex: Male
Location: Mousetown, Southern Illinois

Post: #6
RE: First night wearing FF mask - arrgh
I understand what you are saying Ghost1958 and since getting my nasal breathing capacity opened up, I'm currently testing a nasal pillows mask. I haven't mastered the mouth leak problem yet and may never since I require >16 CM H2O for therapy. I think I'll try setting the machine for straight CPAP and at 14 CM H2O (or lower) just to see if it may work for me.

BTW, I think the reason a lower pressure works for nasal mask therapy is the fact that you must use your tongue against the roof of your mouth to stop the leakage and doing so helps keep it, and the surrounding tissue, from sliding back when sleeping and contributing to the blockage that causes apnea events.

Dude
09-17-2015 09:26 PM
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Jim Bronson Online

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Posts: 264
Joined: Dec 2014

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Elite
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage FX
Humidifier: Built-in
CPAP Pressure: 9.2
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: California

Post: #7
RE: First night wearing FF mask - arrgh
Thanks for the replies. I'll try the SleepRight gadget, but I don't have any problems with nasal breathing unless I have a cold. If I open my mouth with the machine on, using the nasal mask and the pressure set to my normal 9 setting, the air escapes from my mouth like a fire hose. Even so, I'll give the nasal rinse a try.

I had an appointment with my sleep doc today, and he mentioned the tape. He said several of his patients swear by it, so I'll give it a shot. He also said that after a while, the jaw will likely learn to stay closed, and the tongue will learn to stay against the roof of the mouth. I didn't realize jaws and tongues were that smart. I'm also going to try a chin strap again, but I tried one before and couldn't tolerate it.

The only way I can think of to eliminate dry mouth caused by forced air going directly into the mouth is to rinse with cooking oil before bedtime.
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2015 09:59 PM by Jim Bronson.)
09-17-2015 09:57 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Machine: S9 Autoset
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Post: #8
RE: First night wearing FF mask - arrgh
Well, there is Biotene, a mouth moisturizer. You could try that. There's several different kinds of it to try.

There's also several different types of chin straps. some are just simple bands, others are quite elaborate. See our Product Review section for reviews of some of them.

And I cannot believe a doctor would advocate mouth taping. The problem with taping is it has to be done right. Else, you cannot get your mouth open in an emergency. Should you choke in your sleep or cough anything up, that tape is going to prevent you from being able to open your mouth quickly. A chin strap is easy to understand how to adjust it for safety and can be removed or shifted out of the way. Tape, when put on enough to keep the mouth closed, is just not that easy to remove. And you are opening your mouth, not just simply lip leaking. That's not something tape is going to easily fix.

PaulaO2
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-18-2015 02:27 AM
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foss Offline
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Posts: 203
Joined: Jun 2015

Machine: ResMed Autosense 10
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Respironics Amara View FFM
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CPAP Pressure: 9 - 13.4
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Post: #9
RE: First night wearing FF mask - arrgh
Might I suggest that the Amara View is a good alternative to a traditional full face mask. I have found that I get lower AHIs at lower pressure using the View when compared to the Simplus "real" full face mask. The only problems with the View is the positioning and strap tension, adjustments are critical or you get leaks. I have found that the View is unpleasant when nasal allergies strike but that may be true with any mask type.

foss

PS. I use Biotene toothpaste. I prefer the paste to the mouthwash.

Sleep is worth the effort.
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2015 09:40 AM by foss.)
09-18-2015 09:39 AM
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Shastzi Offline

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Joined: Dec 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: FitLife Total face mask
Humidifier: F&P HC150 with Hybernite heated hose.
CPAP Pressure: 15cm-20cm H2O (auto)
CPAP Software: SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: CMS50-F wearable Oximeter; Software: SPO2 Assistant

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Location: Florida, USA.

Post: #10
RE: First night wearing FF mask - arrgh
If your mask fits ok, I would try upping the humidity before changing masks.
I have been working with the dry mouth issue for some time now and
I finally ended up with humidification that works.
I don't have enough air flow freedom in the nasal passages so the full face mask is required.
Not everyone needs as much humidity as I do but I don't have much trouble with dried up airways anymore.

I use a custom built two stage humidity set up. After the air leaves the S9 humidifier it goes into a F&P humidifier
that kicks it up the rest of the way so I have humidity that lasts all night with no cotton mouth, dry throat mess.
Then I use a Hibernite heated hose to keep the rainout at bay.

Hang in there and keep the faith!

Smile

"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

Cool
09-18-2015 10:00 AM
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