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Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo (comments?)
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Ugly Offline

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Posts: 568
Joined: Oct 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Micro
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 7-14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Hydrocephalus, myopia, depression, chronic ugliness, stupidity, tinnitus, mixed sleep apnea.

Sex: Male
Location: Barrie Ontario Canada

Post: #21
RE: Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo (comments?)
(03-03-2013 01:00 AM)archangle Wrote:  If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.

LOL. DME, DME, WTF is a DME... Sorry. I don't use many abbreviations because of my limited memory capacity. That's why I drew up an extensive glossary. I may have to update it. DME is listed as the medical items themselves but you seem to imply that it also refers to the bozos who sell them Huh

Quote:Please tell use you didn't accept the Icon Premo. Isn't being screwed with an S9 Escape bad enough?

She was never up front with the answers. I said I'd take it home and check it out (one night was enough, thank you) try to research it and ask questions here. I carefully examined the agreements I signed, particularly where it says "This consent is valid for the duration of therapy unless revoked by the client." So I used a large red watermark print font across it saying "REVOKED MARCH 2, 2013" on every paper that I signed (although I can't get back that way until Thursday). I found the interface to be awkward and clumsy. I really prefer the text based interface of the ResMed line and even the PR System One unit. She thought all I was going to do was turn it on and turn it off as if I wasn't interested in data analysis. BTW It did list AHI (after searching for it) but not AI or HI separately.

Quote:There's no airflow waveform recording on the Icon machines. I wouldn't classify it as fully data capable.

I'm just a little guy. Why should I need data capable in her opinion?

MY LETTER TO THE MANAGER

I am very disappointed with my dealings with Royal ProResp. I had a recent appointment with "Ms. E." I had my eye on a particular model and she did everything to try to change my mind and choose an inferior model.

I have examined this model at home and found it very awkward to use and it just did not suit my needs. Therefore I have returned it and have included written revocation of any contracts and/or agreements I may have had with Royal ProResp.

Ms. E was not helpful. I found her to be rather condescending and did not appreciate her approach. Not only did she not want to deal with ResMed brand units but she also lied about the price of it (which she later corrected).

I am so disappointed with the poor ethics your company has. It was my hopes to acquire the machine I desired and if the price was over and above what ADP would pay I would have gladly paid the difference. Ms. E was disinterested in any of this.

I will have to approach a different company that hopefully has my best interests in mind and I will be sure never to recommend your company to anybody.
03-04-2013 01:43 PM
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Ugly Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 568
Joined: Oct 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Micro
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 7-14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Hydrocephalus, myopia, depression, chronic ugliness, stupidity, tinnitus, mixed sleep apnea.

Sex: Male
Location: Barrie Ontario Canada

Post: #22
RE: Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo (comments?)
(03-03-2013 10:44 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  No, the F&P software is not free. It is $89 from Supplier #1 on the supplier's list.

Was ResScan supposed to be.... free... or are we just privileged?
03-04-2013 01:48 PM
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DocWils Offline

Members-b

Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: Philips Remstar series 60
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: same as machine
CPAP Pressure: 5-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Switzerland

Post: #23
RE: Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo (comments?)
Okay, Ug, good letter. Go with that and good luck. Good luck. Never let them push on you what you don't want, they are no more expert than you are in the end. Doctors are, but then we are trained different, and frankly, doctors don't know one machine from another either, only what the results should be. So get what you want and what will be best for you, and if they won't help, bugger 'em, but I think at this point you might well have them in a position not only to try and keep you but get you a good price on what you want.

You never know - for them, a sale is a sale, and that counts a lot....
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2013 01:51 PM by DocWils.)
03-04-2013 01:49 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Posts: 8,057
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type; chronic sarcasm

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #24
RE: Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo (comments?)
Quote:Was ResScan supposed to be.... free... or are we just privileged?

ResScan has always been free. Access to it is the tough part. By maintaining our education status, ResMed allows us to distribute it.

Quote:LOL. DME, DME, WTF is a DME... Sorry. I don't use many abbreviations because of my limited memory capacity.

DME is Durable Medical Equipment. It has become also the name for the company that supplies DME. Durable equipment stuff are CPAP machines, wheelchairs, etc. versus bandages, medication, etc.

Check out the wiki abbreviation/acronym page: (CPAP/Sleep Apnea related)
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php?title=Acronyms

and the forum abbreviation/acronym page: (forum related)
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...reviations

PaulaO2
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
03-04-2013 05:23 PM
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Ugly Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 568
Joined: Oct 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Micro
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 7-14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Hydrocephalus, myopia, depression, chronic ugliness, stupidity, tinnitus, mixed sleep apnea.

Sex: Male
Location: Barrie Ontario Canada

Post: #25
RE: Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo (comments?)
(03-04-2013 05:23 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  DME is Durable Medical Equipment. It has become also the name for the company that supplies DME. Durable equipment stuff are CPAP machines, wheelchairs, etc. versus bandages, medication, etc.

And that was the confusing part that got to me.
Oh-jeez
03-05-2013 05:47 AM
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PaulaO2 Offline
Wiki Editor
Moderators

Posts: 8,057
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type; chronic sarcasm

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #26
RE: Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo (comments?)
It's the standard in the medical industry and those of us who use them. I guess "DME supplier" became too much for us to say and spell.

PaulaO2
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
03-05-2013 12:40 PM
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Ugly Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 568
Joined: Oct 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Micro
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 7-14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Hydrocephalus, myopia, depression, chronic ugliness, stupidity, tinnitus, mixed sleep apnea.

Sex: Male
Location: Barrie Ontario Canada

Post: #27
RE: Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo (comments?)
(03-04-2013 01:49 PM)wilorg Wrote:  Okay, Ug, good letter. Go with that and good luck. Good luck.

Okay! I took the Effin' S machine back. Told them plainly I did not want it, and I was discontinuing their services. I made sure I got a receipt that I returned everything. Then I waited for the paratransit bus. When it pulled in I handed the receptionist both envelopes - one to the RT I dealt with and one to the store manager (also an RT). Then I left. I didn't wait around. I didn't want the confrontation.
This evening I got a call from the manager and I explained that I found the cpap machine to be awkward and that the woman I dealt with was not only unhelpful, pushing a machine I didn't want but how deceptive she was at the price. I stated how disappointed I was and was left with no choice but to find another place to go.

That will be the first place I dealt with (VitalAire). I gave a phone call yesterday and I was told that the doctor has now been made aware of the application I made for an AutoSet and they're waiting to hear back from him. They CLAIM that it shouldn't take very long now. So, maybe for Christmas. SHa_biggrin5 Serious though, I hope it's before Easter. I think the bozos at VitalAire know that I won't stop pestering them until they give me what I want. I'm sure they'll be glad to be rid of me.

And unlike some people around Apnea Board, I don't have regular check ups or follow ups and so it's more important that I have something that will allow me to keep my own notes. Like I never had before.
03-07-2013 10:46 PM
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DocWils Offline

Members-b

Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: Philips Remstar series 60
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: same as machine
CPAP Pressure: 5-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Switzerland

Post: #28
RE: Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo (comments?)
Atta boy, Ug! Give 'em stick and they'll do the right thing. The biggest problem I find in the Canadian medical industry (and to a lesser extent the US) is that there is a tendency to push patients around (often just due to overwork - most people working in the medical industry in Canada have to work under far tougher conditions than their counterparts south of the border, with mandated minimum patient loads per hour, etc), and when a patient gets a bit stroppy, they respond. Mostly patients tend to be a passive, so when one gets a bit tough, they are forced to look up from their desk and take note. In Ontario you have the added problem of the two tier system and the for profit pressure on the medical suppliers, so they try and sell you a bill of goods and get you out of the store. Your doc should be your advocate, and the suppliers should get it right. When they don't, they are not only running over you, they are not supplying the prescribed treatment system, which is illegal in Canada, although increasingly common. The Canadian equivalent of what Americans call a DME are as bound to follow a script as a pharmacists is in Canada, and not doing so can land them in a lot of trouble, and that is why they responded to you this time. Remember, the power is always in you.
03-08-2013 06:07 AM
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Ugly Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 568
Joined: Oct 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Micro
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 7-14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Hydrocephalus, myopia, depression, chronic ugliness, stupidity, tinnitus, mixed sleep apnea.

Sex: Male
Location: Barrie Ontario Canada

Post: #29
RE: Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo (comments?)
(03-08-2013 06:07 AM)wilorg Wrote:  Atta boy, Ug! Give 'em stick and they'll do the right thing.


Before Passive-Aggressive Personality Disorder was stricken from the DSM IV-TR, I had been formally diagnosed with it. Oh to be sure, nobody told me, but while I was in the psychiatric hospital (depression and suicidal thoughts were the reason) I did a lot of reading about my rights, particularly the right to review my medical record. So I go up to the nurse and demand a "Form 28" - she was legally obligated to supply me with the form, for which I made a written request to view my medical records. (Note this is a definition under the Mental Health Act of Ontario Canada and rules may be different elsewhere). The doctor had the power to refuse after which I would have had the power to appeal. This never happened. It was OK with the doctor and I poured over pages and pages of gobbledy gook (the spell checker tried to correct that word) but buried deep was some information I found of great importance. That included the psychologist report declaring that I had the aforementioned Passive-Aggressive Personality Disorder. I had a copy of that report made. But I decided that if that's how people see me, I'll live up to it. Rolleyes
So to this day, although that term was in DSM-IV but removed from DSM-IV TR, I am now aware of it and cut loose when the need arises.
That includes any DME that tries to bully me. That's why instead of going head to head with VitalAire I called ResMed directly, and used their policies to my advantage.

BTW DSM 5 (they gave up on Roman Numerals) is due out shortly but I have no idea how it differs.

Quote:The biggest problem I find in the Canadian medical industry (and to a lesser extent the US) is that there is a tendency to push patients around

And because I look like the biggest idiot to walk through their doors in the past few years I suppose I'm an easy target. As I said about the hospital and the Form 28, I learned I have to defend myself.

Quote:Mostly patients tend to be a passive, so when one gets a bit tough, they are forced to look up from their desk and take note.

Well the medical profession is supposed to be just that - professional and many of us learn not to question them. I've been misdiagnosed constantly since birth (where the doctor quickly wrote me off saying I was 'retarded' and would never live to see my fifth birthday. At that, since I'm 45 I guess I've exceeded my life expectancy nine times. I really am an old geezer. Making me over 600 years old in standard human lifespan terms.

Quote:The Canadian equivalent of what Americans call a DME are as bound to follow a script as a pharmacists is in Canada, and not doing so can land them in a lot of trouble, and that is why they responded to you this time. Remember, the power is always in you.

Oh they've tried many times to dance around the issue and create their own definitions.

But...

Some good news today.
I got a phone call from VitalAire, the first company I dealt with.
They claim they have acquired the travelling forms necessary and can get on with processing my request for a new machine.

I am wary of them, of course.
A call on Friday afternoon - how convenient.
I will have to call... hey I can call now and leave a message.
Stating for the record that the desired machine, accept no substitutions, is a genuine ResMed S9 AutoSet (not an Escape Auto since I somehow realize that someone might try to slip me one of those). They have to order out for it but it does sound like at long last I'll have one before the end of March.

Of course I won't count my apneas until they're hatched and I have an S9 AutoSet in my hot little hands.
Cool
03-08-2013 08:47 PM
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DocWils Offline

Members-b

Posts: 1,271
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: Philips Remstar series 60
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10
Humidifier: same as machine
CPAP Pressure: 5-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Switzerland

Post: #30
RE: Fisher & Paykel Icon Premo (comments?)
On the medical side in Canada, the doctors are overworked an stuck in a stupid system that forces them to treat so many patients per hour. OHIP is even worse for their arcane regs and difficult charging system. On the supplier side, no such pressure exists, but the profit motive does and since sales people are given payment partly based on sales (and I am sure kickbacks) and told what to move, they can try to give you the runaround. I had practised briefly in Ontario and Quebec many years ago during my training and remember well how hated the medical supply companies were by the doctors and nurses (and hospital administrators) - they were simply not trusted and loathed for the most part.

Mind you, my stethoscope and orthopaedic hammer are both still the ones I bought at a supply store in Montreal all those years ago, and I wouldn't trade them for the world (still have my scalpels, sphygo and surgical kits from then as well - great stuff) - even with my now deteriorating hearing, I catch things with that scope that other docs don't on their nice new electronically enhanced Swiss and German models (got one, never use it). Just a few weeks ago I caught crackling in the lower left quad of a patient's lung that two younger doctors hadn't caught. Ultrasound revealed some congestion and a big clump of something or other (I try not to x-ray if I don't have to, and the ultrasound machine was right at hand) that showed up quite nicely (normally this is a job for x-rays over ultrasound, but sometimes, especially with the newer machines, you get something useful), so Prednisone, Makatusin and Mucofluid for six days and now the patient has nice clear lungs and no cough (wish I could claim the same for me - horrible cough and nothing budges it). So, despite the untrustworthiness of the suppliers in Ontario and Quebec, I am still grateful for my scope. It saves lives still. And fits my ears without pressing or biting. And it cost $7.00 CDN in 1977.
03-08-2013 09:18 PM
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