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Flow Restriction
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ginzo Offline

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Other Comments: I'm a mouth breather!!!

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Location: North Port, FL

Post: #1
Flow Restriction
Good Morning everyone!!

So I set up sleepy head to monitor 20% and 50% (quite a while back) flow restriction per one of our savvy members suggestion.

Now for the hard part, What am I looking for to be a good "target" in those graphs as a min/med/95% average?

I have searched but can not find any guidelines.

Chuck
01-17-2016 11:35 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #2
RE: Flow Restriction
Good morning Ginzo.

I don't know why you're targeting FL. The real goal of FL is zero. Which for most of us in not possible.

AFAIK: there is no "good "target" in those graphs as a min/med/95% average."

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
01-17-2016 12:55 PM
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DariaVader Offline
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Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet
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Post: #3
RE: Flow Restriction
Flow Limitation seems to be a different measurement than Flow Restriction, although I am not too knowledgeable about the difference - I note that the values are not the same in my charts. Also not clear on which is the greater FR - 20 or 50... I know I have a lot of 50s, and seldom any 20s but logic says that a 50% flow restriction is a greater restriction than 20% (unless it *illogically* means that you are restricted *to* 20%.... ) It would be great to hear some educated information on FR vs FL

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
Tongue Suck Technique for prevention of mouth breathing:
  • Place your tongue behind your front teeth on the roof of your mouth
  • let your tongue fill the space between the upper molars
  • gently suck to form a light vacuum
Practising during the day can help you to keep it at night

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
01-17-2016 01:31 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Machine: ResMed VPAP Auto (S9)
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CPAP Pressure: 18 IPAPmax - 11 EPAPmin, PS=5
CPAP Software: Other Software

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Post: #4
RE: Flow Restriction
Ah, you two are using SleepyHead. So, is not FR whatever JediMark defined it as?
FL is a scoring of the inhalation waveform's top flattening on an arbitrary 0 to 1 scale.
I think FR is the decrease in high rate flow magnitude averaged over X cycles.
ergo, 50% would be worse than 20% -- I am assuming.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
01-17-2016 03:01 PM
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ginzo Offline

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Posts: 227
Joined: Aug 2015

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Res Med Airfit P-10
Humidifier: Humidair S with heated hose.
CPAP Pressure: 10.0-13.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: I'm a mouth breather!!!

Sex: Male
Location: North Port, FL

Post: #5
RE: Flow Restriction
So, am I to assume (ass/u/me) that maybe, Jm's restriction (20%-50%) might be another scale of FL? As in 20% or 50% of the time?

I understand the FL is resistance vs. pressure. But still not clear on restriction. AND my mistake, it is not in my graphs, but in my overview page. I have the tick marks showing in my overlays on the graphs.Oh-jeezDont-know


Am I just an idiot, or are we still trying to decipher what JM's intentions are? I can't find any patterns with any other graphs to tell what/where/why they occur.


(01-17-2016 01:31 PM)DariaVader Wrote:  Flow Limitation seems to be a different measurement than Flow Restriction, although I am not too knowledgeable about the difference - I note that the values are not the same in my charts. Also not clear on which is the greater FR - 20 or 50... I know I have a lot of 50s, and seldom any 20s but logic says that a 50% flow restriction is a greater restriction than 20% (unless it *illogically* means that you are restricted *to* 20%.... ) It would be great to hear some educated information on FR vs FL
01-17-2016 03:32 PM
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pholynyk Offline

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Location: Ontario, Canada

Post: #6
RE: Flow Restriction
I will have to look at a chart that has both 50% and 20% flags, but I think that FR20 means flow Restricted /to/ 20%, rather than flow restricted _by_ 20%. Probably time I looked at the last few days anyway... It should be obvious in comparison.
And it is obvious... The UF1 is the 20%, and is almost flat, the UF2 is 50% and is bumpy with flow.

   
01-17-2016 03:49 PM
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DariaVader Offline
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Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Airfit P10 for Her
Humidifier: H5i humidifier with ClimateLine heated hose
CPAP Pressure: 8-15
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: diabetes II, Thyroidectomized, Primary Immune Deficiency, and the list goes on :P

Sex: Female
Location: Oregon

Post: #7
RE: Flow Restriction
(01-17-2016 03:49 PM)pholynyk Wrote:  I will have to look at a chart that has both 50% and 20% flags, but I think that FR20 means flow Restricted /to/ 20%, rather than flow restricted _by_ 20%. Probably time I looked at the last few days anyway... It should be obvious in comparison.
And it is obvious... The UF1 is the 20%, and is almost flat, the UF2 is 50% and is bumpy with flow.

That was my suspicion also, but it seemed -- counter-intuitive (better word than illogical Bigwink )

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
Tongue Suck Technique for prevention of mouth breathing:
  • Place your tongue behind your front teeth on the roof of your mouth
  • let your tongue fill the space between the upper molars
  • gently suck to form a light vacuum
Practising during the day can help you to keep it at night

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
01-17-2016 03:52 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Posts: 3,847
Joined: Sep 2013

Machine: ResMed VPAP Auto (S9)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 18 IPAPmax - 11 EPAPmin, PS=5
CPAP Software: Other Software

Other Comments: μολὼν λαβέ

Sex: Male
Location: Калифорния

Post: #8
RE: Flow Restriction
(01-17-2016 03:32 PM)ginzo Wrote:  So, am I to assume (ass/u/me) that maybe, Jm's restriction (20%-50%) might be another scale of FL? As in 20% or 50% of the time?

I understand the FL is resistance vs. pressure. But still not clear on restriction. AND my mistake, it is not in my graphs, but in my overview page. I have the tick marks showing in my overlays on the graphs.Oh-jeezDont-know


Am I just an idiot, or are we still trying to decipher what JM's intentions are? I can't find any patterns with any other graphs to tell what/where/why they occur.

No you are not an idiot. This is abstruse stuff.
FL as defined by ResMed is a measure of the shape of the inhalation waveform.
I think FR is a measure of reduction in flow amplitude.

The two may overlap.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
01-17-2016 03:53 PM
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ginzo Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 227
Joined: Aug 2015

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Res Med Airfit P-10
Humidifier: Humidair S with heated hose.
CPAP Pressure: 10.0-13.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: I'm a mouth breather!!!

Sex: Male
Location: North Port, FL

Post: #9
RE: Flow Restriction
So now that I look at it closer, per pholynyks' chart. I brought my chart in to a closer view, I didn't pay attention to the exact time frame.

It looks to me as 20% is worse than 50% as the flow is almost nil @ 20% and the wave form still has some shape at 50%.

That being said, I would assume (ass/u/me) that this tells me you're going to stop breathing and the machine gives you a kick start? All my other readings drop off in those time frames although they tend to be in the 10 second range on average.

That's my take on it, any rebuttals?


(01-17-2016 03:49 PM)pholynyk Wrote:  I will have to look at a chart that has both 50% and 20% flags, but I think that FR20 means flow Restricted /to/ 20%, rather than flow restricted _by_ 20%. Probably time I looked at the last few days anyway... It should be obvious in comparison.
And it is obvious... The UF1 is the 20%, and is almost flat, the UF2 is 50% and is bumpy with flow.


Thanks Mongo, I'm just trying to figure it all out and then offer up some help to others when I can. It looks as if you have nailed it.

BTW, I had to look up abstruse. Google is a wonderful tool! That will be the word of the day!!!

(01-17-2016 03:53 PM)justMongo Wrote:  
(01-17-2016 03:32 PM)ginzo Wrote:  So, am I to assume (ass/u/me) that maybe, Jm's restriction (20%-50%) might be another scale of FL? As in 20% or 50% of the time?

I understand the FL is resistance vs. pressure. But still not clear on restriction. AND my mistake, it is not in my graphs, but in my overview page. I have the tick marks showing in my overlays on the graphs.Oh-jeezDont-know


Am I just an idiot, or are we still trying to decipher what JM's intentions are? I can't find any patterns with any other graphs to tell what/where/why they occur.

No you are not an idiot. This is abstruse stuff.
FL as defined by ResMed is a measure of the shape of the inhalation waveform.
I think FR is a measure of reduction in flow amplitude.

The two may overlap.
01-18-2016 07:38 PM
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