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Follow Up with Sleep Doc and a question for you all
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retired_guy Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
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Post: #31
RE: Follow Up with Sleep Doc and a question for you all
...............
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2014 11:34 AM by retired_guy.)
06-22-2014 11:32 AM
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robysue Online
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Machine: PR Dreamstation BiPAP Auto
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Post: #32
RE: Follow Up with Sleep Doc and a question for you all
(06-21-2014 09:00 PM)retired_guy Wrote:  
(06-21-2014 08:58 PM)robysue Wrote:  
(06-21-2014 08:46 PM)retired_guy Wrote:  Can't speak for Pugsy or her dog. Nor do you need a smart phone or an app to record snores.
The point about pugsy and her dog is that the PR System One machines are well known for scoring "snoring" when there is no snoring---as in no snoring confirmed by an awake bed partner paying attention at the time the machine says you're snoring.

Quote:You have a nifty Resmed S9 Autoset that does a swimmingly fine job of recording far more than you even need to know about stuff.
The point, again, is that the algorithms, although they are very good, are not flawless. And sometimes it's worth knowing something about what triggers the machine to either record a "false positive" event or miss a real event and record a "false negative."

And both the Resmed and PR snore detection algorithms are based on infering the existence of snoring based on vibrations present in the back pressure measured by the machine. External sources of pronounced vibration (such as Pugsy's dog) are capable of fooling the machine.

Pugsy should not let her dog share her mask with her. Unless of course, the dog has apnea too.
Dog lies down touching the hose. Dog snores (loudly) and vibrates the hose. The pressure sensor in the System One picks up the vibrations in the hose and says Pugsy is the one who's snoring.

Others have reliably determined that their PR interprets the hose rubbing against a sharp edge (on the bed frame or bedside table) as "snoring."
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2014 12:14 PM by robysue.)
06-22-2014 12:13 PM
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SleepyDreamCatcher Offline

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Post: #33
RE: Follow Up with Sleep Doc and a question for you all
(06-22-2014 12:13 PM)robysue Wrote:  Dog lies down touching the hose. Dog snores (loudly) and vibrates the hose. The pressure sensor in the System One picks up the vibrations in the hose and says Pugsy is the one who's snoring.

Others have reliably determined that their PR interprets the hose rubbing against a sharp edge (on the bed frame or bedside table) as "snoring."

Well I don't have a pet to confuse the issue, but I do toss and turn some during the night. I guess getting something to make a sound recording and then comparing that to the data on SleepyHead and ResScan would be a good idea.
06-23-2014 10:12 PM
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retired_guy Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
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Post: #34
RE: Follow Up with Sleep Doc and a question for you all
(06-23-2014 10:12 PM)SleepyDreamCatcher Wrote:  
(06-22-2014 12:13 PM)robysue Wrote:  Dog lies down touching the hose. Dog snores (loudly) and vibrates the hose. The pressure sensor in the System One picks up the vibrations in the hose and says Pugsy is the one who's snoring.

Others have reliably determined that their PR interprets the hose rubbing against a sharp edge (on the bed frame or bedside table) as "snoring."

Well I don't have a pet to confuse the issue, but I do toss and turn some during the night. I guess getting something to make a sound recording and then comparing that to the data on SleepyHead and ResScan would be a good idea.

You also don't have a System One. I don't know that I've heard of the animal creates issues problem with the S9, but I suppose it's possible.
06-23-2014 11:36 PM
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retired_guy Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
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Post: #35
RE: Follow Up with Sleep Doc and a question for you all
Sleepy, since you don't have a dog, the dog scenario is not valid in your case. So unless you have some really unruly goldfish or something, how about go back to the basics?

Snoring can be caused if your mask is leaking, or if you're opening your mouth to vent during the night. Or even "true" snoring if your pressures are not really controlling your apnea. I'll bet on the "mouth vent" thing.

Double check your graphs for what the pressure is doing when the "snore" graph is higher. Perhaps give a chinstrap at try, at least for a night or so, so rule in or rule out mouth issues.

All else failing, get a dog and blame it on him. After all, dogs are people too.
06-23-2014 11:46 PM
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diamaunt Offline

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Post: #36
RE: Follow Up with Sleep Doc and a question for you all
(06-23-2014 11:46 PM)retired_guy Wrote:  Snoring can be caused if your mask is leaking, or if you're opening your mouth to vent during the night. Or even "true" snoring if your pressures are not really controlling your apnea. I'll bet on the "mouth vent" thing.

Double check your graphs for what the pressure is doing when the "snore" graph is higher. Perhaps give a chinstrap at try, at least for a night or so, so rule in or rule out mouth issues.

why is it so impossible to believe the OP is snoring? just because his doctor says "that's impossible, the titration said...."

we all know how 100% accurate those things are. (brusque doctors and titration tests)
06-24-2014 08:50 AM
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retired_guy Offline

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Post: #37
RE: Follow Up with Sleep Doc and a question for you all
(06-24-2014 08:50 AM)diamaunt Wrote:  
(06-23-2014 11:46 PM)retired_guy Wrote:  Snoring can be caused if your mask is leaking, or if you're opening your mouth to vent during the night. Or even "true" snoring if your pressures are not really controlling your apnea. I'll bet on the "mouth vent" thing.

Double check your graphs for what the pressure is doing when the "snore" graph is higher. Perhaps give a chinstrap at try, at least for a night or so, so rule in or rule out mouth issues.

why is it so impossible to believe the OP is snoring? just because his doctor says "that's impossible, the titration said...."

we all know how 100% accurate those things are. (brusque doctors and titration tests)

Not impossible for me to believe. You? I just feel the OP should focus on the basics to determine where he's at and what needs to be done. Don't you agree?
06-24-2014 10:27 AM
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SleepyDreamCatcher Offline

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Post: #38
RE: Follow Up with Sleep Doc and a question for you all
(06-23-2014 11:46 PM)retired_guy Wrote:  Sleepy, since you don't have a dog, the dog scenario is not valid in your case. So unless you have some really unruly goldfish or something, how about go back to the basics?

Snoring can be caused if your mask is leaking, or if you're opening your mouth to vent during the night. Or even "true" snoring if your pressures are not really controlling your apnea. I'll bet on the "mouth vent" thing.

Double check your graphs for what the pressure is doing when the "snore" graph is higher. Perhaps give a chinstrap at try, at least for a night or so, so rule in or rule out mouth issues.

All else failing, get a dog and blame it on him. After all, dogs are people too.

(06-24-2014 08:50 AM)diamaunt Wrote:  why is it so impossible to believe the OP is snoring? just because his doctor says "that's impossible, the titration said...."

we all know how 100% accurate those things are. (brusque doctors and titration tests)

(06-24-2014 10:27 AM)retired_guy Wrote:  Not impossible for me to believe. You? I just feel the OP should focus on the basics to determine where he's at and what needs to be done. Don't you agree?


Yes, the doctor leaves a lot to be desired and a single night connected to wires doesn't tell it all. I think I'm snoring because at times I hear snores as I'm going to sleep/waking up or otherwise falling into a doze state. (What they all Stage I sleep?) But there is also nothing wrong with looking at basics. So...

I am already using a chin strap & have all along, even during the titration test. I decided it was better to be proactive with this and insurance would only pay for it if it was bought with my original set up purchase. I don't get any additional supplies for the first 9 months from them. I find I like the pressure from the chin strap. It

My machine is set on CPAP mode at a constant pressure of 7.

Here's some of my other recent numbers.
Last Night: AHI= 0.15
Flow Limit. 0.0, 0.11, 0.58, 0,92
Leak Rate 0.0, 0.00, 0.00, 4.80
Snore 0.0, 0.00 0.66, 1.56

6-24-14: AHI=0.39
Flow Limit. 0.0, 0.09, 0.66, 0.88
Leak Rate 0.0, 0.00, 0.00, 8.40
Snore 0.0, 0.00, 0.64, 1.78

6-23-14: AHI= 1.40
Flow Limit. 0.0, 0.21, 0.62, 0.87
Leak Rate 0.0, 0.00, 0.00, 2.40
Snore 0.0, 0.20, 0.68, 1.68

6-8-14: AHI=0.78
Flow Limit. 0.0, 0.06, 0.61, 0.83
Leak Rate 0.0, 0.00, 0.00, 16.80
Snore 0.0, 0.00, 0.76, 2.40

6-6-14: AHI=1.27
Flow Limit. 0.0, 0.25, 0.68, 0.95
Leak Rate 0.0, 0.00, 0.00, 7.20
Snore 0.0, 0.00, 1.00, 2.30

I haven't had a dog for a couple of years... I miss him (and his snores). No fish for even longer. So no chance of animal noises in my house setting off the snore sensors. Wink
06-27-2014 10:37 PM
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diamaunt Offline

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Post: #39
RE: Follow Up with Sleep Doc and a question for you all
(06-24-2014 10:27 AM)retired_guy Wrote:  Not impossible for me to believe. You? I just feel the OP should focus on the basics to determine where he's at and what needs to be done. Don't you agree?

I trust 'em as far as I could thrown 'em when my back was out and I couldn't even get outta bed.. Smile

but, yeah, basics, always a good place to start.
06-27-2014 11:10 PM
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robysue Online
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Post: #40
RE: Follow Up with Sleep Doc and a question for you all
(06-27-2014 10:37 PM)SleepyDreamCatcher Wrote:  Here's some of my other recent numbers.
Last Night: AHI= 0.15
Flow Limit. 0.0, 0.11, 0.58, 0,92
Leak Rate 0.0, 0.00, 0.00, 4.80
Snore 0.0, 0.00 0.66, 1.56

6-24-14: AHI=0.39
Flow Limit. 0.0, 0.09, 0.66, 0.88
Leak Rate 0.0, 0.00, 0.00, 8.40
Snore 0.0, 0.00, 0.64, 1.78

6-23-14: AHI= 1.40
Flow Limit. 0.0, 0.21, 0.62, 0.87
Leak Rate 0.0, 0.00, 0.00, 2.40
Snore 0.0, 0.20, 0.68, 1.68

6-8-14: AHI=0.78
Flow Limit. 0.0, 0.06, 0.61, 0.83
Leak Rate 0.0, 0.00, 0.00, 16.80
Snore 0.0, 0.00, 0.76, 2.40

6-6-14: AHI=1.27
Flow Limit. 0.0, 0.25, 0.68, 0.95
Leak Rate 0.0, 0.00, 0.00, 7.20
Snore 0.0, 0.00, 1.00, 2.30
Some things to keep in mind about those Resmed Snore numbers from Sleepy Head: They typically range from 0.0 (no snoring) to 3+ (lots of snoring), where anything that SH reports as "over 3" is often cut off the TOP of the Snoring graph in ResScan. (See 9. Snoring Data in my SH Guide for details about how Resmed machines snoring is reported in SH.)

Here's the thing: Your median Snoring numbers are all 0.0 except for one night. So the S9 is picking up NO snoring for 50% of the night most nights. The 95% Snoring numbers range from .67 to 1.0, and that's certainly in the broad middle of the ResScan Snore graph. (The middle of the ResScan Snore graph seems to correspond to about a 1.25 or 1.5 on the SH Snore graph.)

But without the Snore Graphs themselves, we can't tell if the S9 thinks you are snoring for 40-45% of the night or if the S9 thinks you are snoring for 5-10% of the night.

And by the way, the maximum leak rates indicate that your leaks are all well under the RedLine. Hence there's good reason to think that the machine's recorded data is reasonably correct.

Questions about SleepyHead?
See my Guide to SleepyHead
06-28-2014 01:59 AM
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