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Forced to sleeplessness
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justMongo Offline

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Machine: ResMed VPAP Auto (S9)
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Post: #11
RE: Forced to sleeplessness
(09-20-2015 01:50 PM)Sleptgoodb4 Wrote:  BMI is why they sent me to the witch dr, err, sleep study. Now that I'm in the system it will take an act of God to get me out of this. I'm really getting tired of feeling like crap because of this treatment

I'm all for road safety. We've had several members who drive for a living; including a long haul driver who used a CPAP in the sleeper berth of his rig.

Still it seems the question of who should be tested for sleep apnea is not being uniformly applied. The ATA has opined that BMI alone is not enough to warrant an examiner sending a driver for a sleep test. However, that's water under the bridge for you. I see your predicament -- once they put that in your medical record, it's impossible to get out.

I used to fly both fixed wing and rotary wing; there are now several conditions in my records that means I can never get a medical cert again.

If I may ask, how severe did they categorize your apnea? And what type of commercial driving do you do? I only ask because I'm trying to understand if the severity of your apnea and the type of driving makes for a reasonable case for a driver to be forced to comply with CPAP.

Kindest Regards,

Mongo

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-20-2015 03:19 PM
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SaldusMiegas Offline

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Posts: 228
Joined: Apr 2015

Machine: ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: P-10, F&P Simplus
Humidifier: integrated
CPAP Pressure: Rx:14, Set:Auto 8.0-15.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Woot! P-10 pillows plus Ruby chinstrap for side-sleeping mouth breathers

Sex: Male
Location: Virginia

Post: #12
RE: Forced to sleeplessness
(09-19-2015 06:09 PM)Sleptgoodb4 Wrote:  I've been using this overpriced humidifier with a fan on it for a little over a month now. I find myself looking for an energy drink right after I brush my teeth. I usually wake with a headache and same snotty nose, oh and now my lungs hurt all day.

There are some comfort settings you can play with which will not alter the prescribed pressure settings and might be helpful. The A10 gives you the ability to change: air temperature, humidity, ramp time, and EPR or exhale pressure relief.

* air temp and humidity might make a difference on your headache and snotty nose, especially if that wet nose is when you first wake up.

.. There is something called "rainout" which you would feel on your face and in your nose. This is caused by the humidity in the tube condensing and hitting you in the face. If that is happening, you can dial down the humidity setting or increase the temp a little.

.. it's possible the air temp might give you a headache and in that case you can make it a little warmer or cooler (if cooler you might need to back off the humidity to avoid "rainout"). Settings: Climate Control (auto, manual), Tube Temp (auto, degrees), Humidity (only shows if Climate Control is set to manual, then adjust as desired)

* ramp time allows you to tell the machine to hold off cranking up the pressure until you fall asleep when ostensibly you won't notice it. Now, the machine doesn't know if you are awake or asleep, so ramp time is set to some number of minutes to let you drift off before the pressure kicks in. Setting: Ramp Time

* EPR is a setting that backs off the pressure a little when you exhale. If you have a sense that it's hard to exhale when the pressure is on, then EPR let's you reduce the pressure during exhale by 1 to 3 points. Setting: EPR (on, off), EPR Type (ramp only, full time), EPR Level (1,2,3)

.. the EPR may give you some relief so your lungs don't have to work so hard to exhale against the air pressure coming from the machine

* another headache factor could be how tight you have the mask strapped on. You have to make it tight enough to eliminate air leaks but not so tight that your head is in a vice. If you didn't get some kind of demo/training from your DME on how to fit the mask, you can find videos on youtube. Google your mask name and fit demo.

All of the above settings are considered "comfort" settings and can be adjusted by you without messing with the fixed pressure that was set by your DME.

In order to get to the EPR settings, you will need to use the super secret "clinical" menu.

* Press in the HOME button and the round knob at the same time and hold for about ten seconds to get to the clinical menu. Scroll down and you will see the EPR, EPR Type, and EPR Level settings under Comfort.

* If you do pull up the clinical menu, you might also want to change the setting: Essentials from "on" to "plus". That will show some more gee whiz reporting info on the non-clinical Sleep Report menu. (Your DME may have already done this for you).


(09-19-2015 06:09 PM)Sleptgoodb4 Wrote:  But hey here is a brigt side. My sleep score is usually in th 90s. I usually register 0.1 events per hr and the only drops in score comes from not sleeping more than 7 hrs or leaking mask. Again i find this a bit odd. I would have thouht someone with moderate to severe apnea would have a much lower score and/or feel alot better.

Sounds like you are talking about the resmed/myair web site. This report is designed to encourage people to keep going, so the biggest factor in the score is how long you use the machine each night. Spoiler alert... you will also enjoy the upbeat emails and gold stars from myair. Smile

If you were diagnosed in a sleep study with moderate to sever apnea (AHI 15-30+) and now you see scores like 0.1 AHI, then the machine is doing something good even if it hurts until you get it dialed in and comfortable.

* It's possible that during the sleep study you slept in a position you don't normally sleep in (usually on your back is worst AHI, on your side is less, and they make you do both during the study) If so then maybe it wasn't impacting your life.

* It's also possible that the "normal" you fought through with energy drinks everyday was actually impaired but you self medicated to overcome it.

* In any case as you know from how you feel now, the AHI doesn't tell the whole story. You could be experiencing things (caused by your therapy) that disturb your sleep but don't wake you up or you don't remember. There are some indicators in the detail data the on the SD card which might provide some useful hints on why your sleep is not restful.

For a more detailed look into what's going on, you have a great machine that is capable of providing a lot more useful data beyond what myair shows.

* Using software tools like Sleepyhead, most of us monitor and tweak our behaviors and machine settings to improve comfort and effectiveness of our CPAP therapy.

* When you are ready for this, the data is available to you and lots of folks here will rally around to help you interpret the data and make informed decisions about next steps.


(09-19-2015 06:09 PM)Sleptgoodb4 Wrote:  I felt better before I was forced into treatment for something I never complained about. So i guess my question for those of you that have been in this (lets not call it a scam just yet) sleep thingy for a while now is is my situation normal or should i go see a real dr?

SGB4, here's the thing... however you got required to do the sleep study, it revealed a condition you didn't know you had before. If the study showed moderate to severe sleep apnea, then it is your good fortune to be able to treat it and neutralize its bad effects on your health and life expectancy. Most people feel rotten or snore a lot but some don't have symptoms. The bad effect is it deprives your brain of oxygen while you sleep. Maybe a little or maybe a lot. The good news that doesn't feel like good news is you can nail this condition before it nails you.

For myself and lots of others with sleep apnea, the CPAP therapy has been life changing. We don't feel sleepy all the time. We don't feel rotten all the time. We feel like we got our lives back. In return for that we put up with a little annoyance being hoseheads and we have to clean and maintain some equipment that keeps us feeling better, so it's worth it.

It's normal for some people to take a while for their bodies to adjust to the CPAP therapy. I don't know all the symptoms to expect because I adapted pretty quickly without much discomfort. In your case it sounds like you didn't have any notable sleep apnea symptoms before, and now the therapy itself gives you symptoms you need to make go away.

As you are still feeling the side effects now a month into the therapy then it sounds like you need to make some adjustments. I hope the suggestions above help make this more comfortable and you get rid of the headaches and wet noses.

If that doesn't get you over the hump, then I would next look at auto pressure mode as justMongo suggested. If the current constant pressure setting is more than you can tolerate then you gotta do something about it.

* Many of us who are using auto mode notice that apneas and pressure required to prevent them increase when we sleep on our backs. For people who move around a little at night it is not uncommon to see that reflected in the auto pressure adjustments.

If you never sleep on your back and yet the sleep doc set you to the pressure required to prevent apneas on your back, then maybe the auto mode would serve you better because it would keep the pressure low except when needed. Seems like it might be worth exploring.

In your line of work, that might mean getting your doc involved. If you aren't happy with your sleep doc, then consult your regular doc. At least s/he can advise you on what you can or can't do, and regular family docs prescribe these machines all the time based on at-home sleep studies without a specialist. Maybe your family doc can give you some guidance and perhaps a little top cover with the regulators to allow you to use the auto mode.

For most other purposes all the insurance companies seem to care about is "compliance" which means you actually use the darn thing 4 hours or more per night, on at least seventy percent of the nights. When you bring in your profession and the people who regulate it, I have no idea. Get advice from folks who know, and I bet there might be some in this forum who will chime in.

For me and the members of this forum, sleep apnea therapy is not a scam.

* untreated sleep apnea made our lives miserable and for some it led to other serious conditions that are no longer reversible with therapy

* some studies project triple the mortality rate (I don't know how they count that since I think the mortality rate is generally one hundred percent, but I read it on the internet so it must be true).

* I was once told by one member here that for people who have certain other life threatening conditions besides sleep apnea, untreated sleep apnea can be fatal

Serious stuff for people who are affected by it, and the therapy is non-invasive and involves no drugs. Not everyone tolerates CPAP therapy well but for the ones it helps it is pretty amazing. I am one of those and I can't imagine deliberately going without it.

Well, good luck to you. Hope you get your situation under control and feel even better than you thought you did before you were diagnosed. You came to a good place where there are lots of knowledgeable people who are willing to share the benefit of their experience and training with you.

Saldus Miegas
09-20-2015 06:33 PM
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Sleptgoodb4 Offline

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Machine: Resmed airsence10 autoset
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Post: #13
RE: Forced to sleeplessness
Thanks for he advise/lesson.

I know that apnea is a real problem. I guess I dont like the way I got forced into this and the fact that all the things they say i should have been experiencing before I got treatment I experience now. Most days I find I have to remind myself that its not a dream and I'm awake. Weirdest damn thing I've been through.

I'll try some of these suggestions, guess I'll start with temp and humidity. Might get with dr on pressure in the morn.

And Mongo, I run a flatbed OTR, if you can get it on and I can strap it, we will haul it. My days usually run 16-18 hrs wake to sleep. Not all of that working for any dot types on here
09-20-2015 10:02 PM
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justMongo Offline

Monitors

Posts: 3,851
Joined: Sep 2013

Machine: ResMed VPAP Auto (S9)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 18 IPAPmax - 11 EPAPmin, PS=5
CPAP Software: Other Software

Other Comments: μολὼν λαβέ

Sex: Male
Location: Калифорния

Post: #14
RE: Forced to sleeplessness
(09-20-2015 10:02 PM)Sleptgoodb4 Wrote:  And Mongo, I run a flatbed OTR, if you can get it on and I can strap it, we will haul it. My days usually run 16-18 hrs wake to sleep. Not all of that working for any dot types on here

Those are long hours Sleptgoodb4. I wish you the best on what is a new phase of your life. Be safe.

Mongo

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
09-20-2015 10:26 PM
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SaldusMiegas Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 228
Joined: Apr 2015

Machine: ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: P-10, F&P Simplus
Humidifier: integrated
CPAP Pressure: Rx:14, Set:Auto 8.0-15.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Woot! P-10 pillows plus Ruby chinstrap for side-sleeping mouth breathers

Sex: Male
Location: Virginia

Post: #15
RE: Forced to sleeplessness
Sleptgoodb4,

I'm just another guy with sleep apnea.

Seven months ago I couldn't spell it.

Learned whatever I know about it from this generous community of really smart people and trying to give something back.

Hey I just googled OTR apnea... No wonder you guys feel targeted as an industry.

Weird how your symptoms came from the treatment of no symptoms. Sleep studies are objective, though. So maybe it was a good catch that came about in a bad way. Now you gotta get the therapy working for you versus against you.

Hope you feel better soon.

Saldus Miegas
09-20-2015 10:40 PM
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Sleptgoodb4 Offline

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Posts: 9
Joined: Sep 2015

Machine: Resmed airsence10 autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Quattro
Humidifier: Unsure
CPAP Pressure: 12
CPAP Software: Other Software

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Sex: Male
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Post: #16
RE: Forced to sleeplessness
Last week i dropped my humidity by 2 points and temp down to 70, it seem to have helped he snotty nose, thinking of dropin humidity down to 1. Also called the clinic about he pain in my lungs and the nice lady says they will get right back with me. Last night i was kinda pist i havent heard from them yet when i noticed my pressure had been dropped from 12 to 11. Still would have liked a call from them. Lungs are feeling a bit better. Overall treatment still has me feeling like crap
09-27-2015 03:04 PM
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