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Full face and pillow masks -> different pressure and AHI count...
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CoyoteV8 Offline

Members

Posts: 4
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Wisp
Humidifier: included with Airsense 10
CPAP Pressure: 5-20
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #1
Full face and pillow masks -> different pressure and AHI count...
Hi,

I have recently been diagnosed with apnea (AHI ~60) and started to use a ResMed AirSense A10 Autoset (range set to 5-20). I have the Resmed Airfit F10 full face and P10 pillow masks as well as the Respironics Wisp nasal mask.

I found the Wisp less useful - it comes with the disadvantages of both the full face mask (covers my nose) and the pillows (leaking if I open my mouth).

Both the P10 and the F10 work fine. I found the F10 has a slight edge as I can open my mouth, even talk with this mask on, and it does not irritate my nose like the P10. I found it easier to breath with it, too. (in the other hand at higher pressures - ref. below - it does leak if I don't tighten it really hard)

However, checking the data on ResScan, the machine registers much more AHI event with the F10 mask (AHI ~5) than with the P10 mask (AHI between 1-2). The pressure is also significantly higher with the F10, it goes up to 13 at times, while with the P10 it never goes above 6-7 tops...

(ref. attached the ResScan graph for the P10 and the F10 one day apart, otherwise under the same conditions - sorry, I'm not allowed insert images to the post yet)

So I wonder whether the machine fails to record a bunch of events with the pillow mask, or is the P10 pillows really that much better in maintaining much less AHI event with significantly lower pressure.

What do you think about it?

Thanks and BR,

Rudy


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(This post was last modified: 07-29-2015 10:51 PM by CoyoteV8.)
07-29-2015 10:49 PM
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iSnore Offline

Preferred Members-2

Posts: 148
Joined: Apr 2015

Machine: Phillips-Respironics DS560TS REMstar Auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed AirFit P10
Humidifier: Phillips-Respironics DS6T Heated Tube
CPAP Pressure: 9-13 A-Flex 2
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: SYSTEM ONE resistance set to X1 for P10

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #2
RE: Full face and pillow masks -> different pressure and AHI count...
Set up SleepyHead so you can compare mask leak rates.
07-30-2015 08:18 AM
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PaytonA Offline
Wiki Editor
Monitors

Posts: 3,012
Joined: Dec 2013

Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: H5i(distilled-top up)
CPAP Pressure: VAuto MinE14.0 MaxI 20.6 PS4.0
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Orange County,California

Post: #3
RE: Full face and pillow masks -> different pressure and AHI count...
ReScan shows leak rates!
07-30-2015 10:26 AM
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iSnore Offline

Preferred Members-2

Posts: 148
Joined: Apr 2015

Machine: Phillips-Respironics DS560TS REMstar Auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed AirFit P10
Humidifier: Phillips-Respironics DS6T Heated Tube
CPAP Pressure: 9-13 A-Flex 2
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: SYSTEM ONE resistance set to X1 for P10

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #4
RE: Full face and pillow masks -> different pressure and AHI count...
Good to know.... let me change that to, "Use ResScan to compare leak rates." Big Grin
07-30-2015 11:14 AM
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CoyoteV8 Offline

Members

Posts: 4
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Wisp
Humidifier: included with Airsense 10
CPAP Pressure: 5-20
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #5
RE: Full face and pillow masks -> different pressure and AHI count...
Flow rate seems to be ok for both masks, the F10 leaks at higher pressures (~13) if I don't tighten it down strongly. However the leak is way below tolerances, so it should not cause the higher AHI count...

In the end I'm fine with both ones, but if the P10 can provide so much better result (i.e. much less AHI event at a significantly lower pressure) then the choice is obvious.... I just wonder if this is really the case or it is just the machine records data differently with the two masks. I mean the P10 comes with so much better result which makes me suspicious...
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2015 11:41 AM by CoyoteV8.)
07-30-2015 11:29 AM
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iSnore Offline

Preferred Members-2

Posts: 148
Joined: Apr 2015

Machine: Phillips-Respironics DS560TS REMstar Auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed AirFit P10
Humidifier: Phillips-Respironics DS6T Heated Tube
CPAP Pressure: 9-13 A-Flex 2
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: SYSTEM ONE resistance set to X1 for P10

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #6
RE: Full face and pillow masks -> different pressure and AHI count...
Are you picking up more clear airway events (aka centrals) as a result of the higher FFM pressures?

(I know it's on the graph, but I'm having trouble reading it)
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2015 11:36 AM by iSnore.)
07-30-2015 11:34 AM
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trish6hundred Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 6,446
Joined: May 2012

Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet for Her
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Paykel Simplus
Humidifier: H5i Heated Humidifier
CPAP Pressure: 10 - 7-20 Cm H2O
CPAP Software: Not using software

Other Comments: I started CPAP in 2008. Totally blind since birth.

Sex: Female
Location: Missouri, USA

Post: #7
RE: Full face and pillow masks -> different pressure and AHI count...
Hi CoyoteV8,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
Hang in there for more responses to your post and much success to you with your CPAP therapy.

trish6hundred
07-30-2015 12:33 PM
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AshSF Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2014

Machine: PRS1 D560TS
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed P10, Bkup: Airfit F10 & Quattro Air
Humidifier: PRS1 60 series with Heated Tube
CPAP Pressure: 8 - 8 w/ Aflex 3
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Using APAP mode with fixed pressure

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #8
RE: Full face and pillow masks -> different pressure and AHI count...
A lot of people report having lower pressure on a nasal pillow mask (P10) than a full face mask (F10). This has been my experience as well.

One potential explanation for this is that nasal pillows reduce the nasal valve collapse and nasal resistance, more effectively than an FFM.

Started APAP 4-20, Closed range to 7.5-14, then straight 8.0 w/ Aflex 3
RDI always below 1. But sleep much much better at straight pressure.
Started on F10, Tried Quattro Air successfully. Finally settled on P10.
07-30-2015 01:57 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
Wiki Editor
Moderators

Posts: 8,065
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 14-20
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type; chronic sarcasm

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: western NC, USA

Post: #9
RE: Full face and pillow masks -> different pressure and AHI count...
I used to switch between a nasal pillow (Nuance) and a full face mask (Simplus) and the FFM always had higher AHI. The leak rate differences were comparable because I kept lip leaking with the Nuance (even with the chin strap). So I stopped using the Nuance and now use the Simplus full time. After I started using the mask liners (and using the correct size), my AHI slowly settled and now it is always less than 2. It has even started being less than 1!

If the machine needs to be told what mask type you are using, make sure you are making that change each time you switch.

If you are opening your mouth at night with the pillows, then you need a chin strap. Or you need to just use the FFM.

Decide which one you want to use then try using it consistently for several months. You should see the AHI settle into a pattern. With the FFM, it may take longer (or may not). If the leaks continue with the FFM, consider either using liners or trying a different mask. There's a lot of different ones out there and the F10 may not be right for you.

As for why the AHI is higher with the FFM than the pillows, I have some theories. Mine was quite different. Sometimes I think maybe it is just the way the air is delivered. Our throats and nasal passages get used to being pushed out of the way and now it comes at it from different angles. The pressure from the pillows comes at it right there. No buffer, no nothing. FFMs however, the pressure is the same but it is more... Pillows are like having the corner of a heavy book balanced on the back of your hand. Same weight, but it is right on that corner, so you are going to feel it. FFMs are more like the book on its edge. Same book, same weight, but it is spread out a little more. So I think the throat muscles and tissues are being pushed kinda differently. Over time, everything settles into it and reacts as it should. I know, I know, same pressure and all that! But it is my theory! LOL

PaulaO2
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


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07-30-2015 03:16 PM
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CoyoteV8 Offline

Members

Posts: 4
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: ResMed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Wisp
Humidifier: included with Airsense 10
CPAP Pressure: 5-20
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location:

Post: #10
RE: Full face and pillow masks -> different pressure and AHI count...
(07-30-2015 11:34 AM)iSnore Wrote:  Are you picking up more clear airway events (aka centrals) as a result of the higher FFM pressures?

(I know it's on the graph, but I'm having trouble reading it)

Yes, although I'm not sure if the pressure is up because the machine records more events or vice versa...
07-30-2015 03:20 PM
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