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Full face weirdness
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chd3143 Offline

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Posts: 29
Joined: May 2014

Machine: REMstar Pro Model 460P
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: RESMED Mirage FX
Humidifier: RESMED
CPAP Pressure: 11.5
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Boise, ID

Post: #1
Full face weirdness
I struggle with rem sleep mouth breathing. When I really relax I struggle to mouth breathe and end up waking up gasping. Chin straps aren't effective for me. So I started using a full face mask but my sleep numbers are tanking. Tons of snoring, ahi increased from .4 to 5, lots of oa's when I normally have none. I know there is some leaking but not too significant. Curious ... Is there any data that suggests that one should increase pressure with a full face mask? Seems like pressure should equalize with a good seal, but I'm out of ideas. Thanks!
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2014 02:00 AM by chd3143.)
10-19-2014 01:59 AM
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JimZZZ Offline

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Posts: 370
Joined: Dec 2013

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Fisher & Paykel Simplus
Humidifier: ResMed H5i (not using)
CPAP Pressure: 9 - 14
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: CareFusion PureSom Ultra Chinstrap

Sex: Male
Location: Western North Carolina

Post: #2
RE: Full face weirdness
Don't know about the REMstar, but the Resmed S9 has a setting for the mask type in the clinician's menu. Maybe you could check that if you haven't already.
10-19-2014 06:18 AM
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surferdude2 Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 1,077
Joined: Jul 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Mirage Quattro & Optilife
Humidifier: ResMed H5i @ #3 if nose breathing & #5 if mouth breathing
CPAP Pressure: 12 ~ 20 & 11 ~12 if nasal mask
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Late stage 2 emphysema

Sex: Male
Location: Mousetown, Southern Illinois

Post: #3
RE: Full face weirdness
(10-19-2014 01:59 AM)chd3143 Wrote:  ... Is there any data that suggests that one should increase pressure with a full face mask?

Each different CPAP mask has an intentional leak amount in order to ensure that your exhaled breath is diluted and purged and does not contaminate the next inhaled breath. This could be likened to hosing down the immediate area to clean it up. The larger the area, the more hosing down is needed. A nasal mask will have less physical interior volume so it takes less excess air flow to clean it of you exhaled breath. The full face mask has a much higher interior volume so it must be supplied with a greater volume of excess air to clean it.

With the above in mind, you can understand that if you do not change your system setting when switching from a nasal mask to a full faced mask, you will not be getting enough pressure to equal your previous therapy amount. That explains why your AHI figure increased.
10-19-2014 08:51 AM
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chd3143 Offline

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Posts: 29
Joined: May 2014

Machine: REMstar Pro Model 460P
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: RESMED Mirage FX
Humidifier: RESMED
CPAP Pressure: 11.5
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Boise, ID

Post: #4
RE: Full face weirdness
Surfer, which setting? Pressure? Thanks! That makes a lot more sense.
10-19-2014 09:29 AM
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archangle Online
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Advisory Members

Posts: 3,163
Joined: Feb 2012

Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift FX
Humidifier: ResMed S9 H5i
CPAP Pressure: 16-20
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Happy PAPper

Sex: Undisclosed
Location: USA

Post: #5
RE: Full face weirdness
(10-19-2014 01:59 AM)chd3143 Wrote:  Curious ... Is there any data that suggests that one should increase pressure with a full face mask?

Some of the experts say that since a FFM presses on the lower jaw, it can cause the jaw to slide back, which makes apnea worse. It probably doesn't affect everyone the same way.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
10-19-2014 09:38 AM
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chd3143 Offline

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Posts: 29
Joined: May 2014

Machine: REMstar Pro Model 460P
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: RESMED Mirage FX
Humidifier: RESMED
CPAP Pressure: 11.5
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Boise, ID

Post: #6
RE: Full face weirdness
Oh I did check my clinician settings, and it doesn't look like I can indicate which type of mask.
10-19-2014 09:44 AM
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retired_guy Offline

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Posts: 2,744
Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Airfit P10
Humidifier: ResMed
CPAP Pressure: 10.6/14, EPR 3
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Is it bedtime yet?

Sex: Male
Location: Beautiful, albeit very wet Oregon Coast

Post: #7
RE: Full face weirdness
I would try increasing the pressure from 11.5 to 12 and see if that takes care of the ahi. You may need to go a little beyond that since it sounds as if you're right on the "cusp" of where you need to be at 11.5. But 12 for a few days, then re-evaluate.
10-19-2014 10:49 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Posts: 3,855
Joined: Sep 2013

Machine: ResMed VPAP Auto (S9)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage Quattro
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 18 IPAPmax - 11 EPAPmin, PS=5
CPAP Software: Other Software

Other Comments: μολὼν λαβέ

Sex: Male
Location: Калифорния

Post: #8
RE: Full face weirdness
(10-19-2014 09:44 AM)chd3143 Wrote:  Oh I did check my clinician settings, and it doesn't look like I can indicate which type of mask.

Double check that.. and mask type is sometimes available in the user accessible settings. Mask type incompatibility may even effect apnea scoring.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
10-19-2014 10:49 AM
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readyforsleep Offline

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Posts: 233
Joined: Mar 2014

Machine: Resmed S9 AutoSet for her
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Swift FX for her
Humidifier: attached
CPAP Pressure: 14.6-17.4
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Female
Location: Lawrenceburg, Indiana

Post: #9
RE: Full face weirdness
I too found that I needed a higher pressure with a full face mask. I was using the Simplus. The culprit in my case was the bottom strap that sits just below the ear. I would get runs of hypopneas and obstructives depending on how tight the bottom strap was. I would raise my pressure, the mask would have to be tighter and still I would see numerous events. I FINALLY LISTENED TO RETIRED GUY, ( don't tell him
he was right) switched back to my Swift fx and my ahi is much, much better. I thought I was a confirmed mouth breather, but with the correct pressure and Retired Guys tongue to the roof of the mouth trick, my jaw stays put with a little help from my chin strap.Dancing

p.s. thank-you Retired Guy, Galactus, Zonk, Paula and everyone for helping me figure this out. I'm trialing the P10 now and loving it ( SORRY, PAULA) I can't believe it is staying on my head!

2010 sleep study 63 AHI, 2014 3.0
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2014 12:40 PM by readyforsleep.)
10-19-2014 12:33 PM
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chd3143 Offline

Preferred Members

Posts: 29
Joined: May 2014

Machine: REMstar Pro Model 460P
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: RESMED Mirage FX
Humidifier: RESMED
CPAP Pressure: 11.5
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Boise, ID

Post: #10
RE: Full face weirdness
(10-19-2014 12:33 PM)readyforsleep Wrote:  I FINALLY LISTENED TO RETIRED GUY, ( don't tell him
he was right) switched back to my Swift fx and my ahi is much, much better. I thought I was a confirmed mouth breather, but with the correct pressure and Retired Guys tongue to the roof of the mouth trick

Hey what was the trick?
10-19-2014 01:55 PM
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