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Hard time falling asleep with mask on.
#1
Hard time falling asleep with mask on.
Have been on a bipap for 7 months and things are better than in the beginning, however, still not totally successful. I cannot fall asleep with the mask on.  So, I wait until I wake up to go to the bathroom (middle of night) before I put on the mask.   Does anyone have suggestions as to how to fall asleep with the mask on.  I toss and turn for an hour and then just take it off.

Also, a few weeks ago, my face felt somewhat numb early evening. Felt like I had the mask on when I didn't.  I checked to see if I could smile, etc. and it was all there.  I was wondering if it was the suction of the full face mask.  I went a week without putting it on because I felt I needed a break.  The pressure is comfortable, finally.  I was over the top at one point.

I'll take any suggestions.  Have heart issues and know I need to be on this machine, but it is so hard!!
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#2
RE: Hard time falling asleep with mask on.
Paris,

its not easy I know but here's what helps me - there are a number of meditation apps or ones that play white noise / calming music. I like 'simple habits' where you focus on relaxed breathing whilst listening to a calming voice. I also find over the counter sleep meds help a little as do anti-histamines. Not sure how any of these would react with heart meds but the combination really helps along with trying to avoid TV and read a little until tired, I wait until tired then put on the mask and listen to one of the apps.

Rob
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#3
RE: Hard time falling asleep with mask on.
Have you ever considered replacing that full face mask with something lighter? The Quattro is about the biggest most obtrusive mask on the market with burly straps, forehead stabilizer and a huge heavy frame. Unless you know you have a mouth breathing problem, why not try a lighter, quieter nasal pillows mask like the Resmed Airfit P10?

"I can't" , and as long as you believe that, you never will. Those are the words of defeat and resignation. You have developed a habit not to use the mask, and as long as you believe you can't fall asleep with it, I'm certain that will be self-fulfilling. What I'm suggesting is a change in equipment or attitude that will enable your request. Instead of I can't, try "what can I do so I can?"
Sleeprider
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#4
RE: Hard time falling asleep with mask on.
i twist and turn alot too, i use dreamwear fullface
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#5
RE: Hard time falling asleep with mask on.
There is some interesting theories around mental or psychological scotomas - in essence the mind can only believe one 'truth' and will drive other senses to ensure this truth is validated - for instance when you've lost your car keys and run round the house saying "I can't find my key, I can't find my keys" that is your 'truth' and the brain will block visual sensors from seeing your keys. If you say "I know they're here somewhere and I'll see them in a minute" then they'll appear like magic.

What Sleeprider describes you are currently doing to yourself, If you change it to "I'm ready to sleep now with my mask on and I'll breath rhythmically until I do" then you simply will, your body will enable it !

https://thepacificinstitute.com/blog/201...ont-of-us/ - Lou Tice coined this phrase a number of years ago, I think its valid here to think about.............


As per normal.........Sleeprider's initial answer was way better than mine but I hope mine explains the mental trap you have fallen into ?

Rob
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#6
RE: Hard time falling asleep with mask on.
(05-02-2019, 11:05 AM)Paris66 Wrote: Have been on a bipap for 7 months and things are better than in the beginning, however, still not totally successful. I cannot fall asleep with the mask on.  So, I wait until I wake up to go to the bathroom (middle of night) before I put on the mask.   Does anyone have suggestions as to how to fall asleep with the mask on.  I toss and turn for an hour and then just take it off.

Also, a few weeks ago, my face felt somewhat numb early evening. Felt like I had the mask on when I didn't.  I checked to see if I could smile, etc. and it was all there.  I was wondering if it was the suction of the full face mask.  I went a week without putting it on because I felt I needed a break.  The pressure is comfortable, finally.  I was over the top at one point.

I'll take any suggestions.  Have heart issues and know I need to be on this machine, but it is so hard!!

What is the difference when you attempt to fall asleep and don't wear the mask?  Do you fall asleep quickly when you try it?  If so, then the mask is not right for you, or you are subconsciously 'fighting' the entire idea of the mask or of PAP therapy in general.  Or, you are unhappy about your circumstances, maybe with some other health problems and the donning of the mask is symbolic of your decline.  The mind is a powerful thing!

Have you had some fits of anger recently?  If you have, it supports my suspicions in the first paragraph.  Mind you, a lack of sleep will cause that as well.

I think you would do well to self-examine, even maybe to submit to some counselling or therapy under a clinical psychologist of some repute.  You may need some help to face something(s) that is eating at you and that needs to be put to rest.  It's not normal to take so long to adapt to PAP unless the prescription is wrong, the delivery is wrong, or you have other psychological problems that preclude falling to sleep within about 20 minutes.

The numbness in the face makes me wonder if your mask is wrong for you or just overtightened to control what you feel are unacceptable leaks. I have never experienced numbness from either my headgear or my nasal mask, the N20.

Going for a week without PAP to get rid of neural numbness is not a lot unlike 'robbing Peter to pay Paul.'  It is by no means a universal prescription, and not really very logical.

What recourse do you have to local experts in headgear fit and in PAP therapy?  Maybe someone locally can take a look at your mask and tell you what, if anything, to change.
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#7
RE: Hard time falling asleep with mask on.
(05-02-2019, 11:05 AM)Paris66 Wrote: I'll take any suggestions.  Have heart issues and know I need to be on this machine, but it is so hard!!

This one statement alone is a good reason to make some changes now.  Your mask isn’t right for you!
No mask should make your face feel numb.   Sad

If you are using insurance, you are entitled to get another mask at 6 months.  Order something lighter like a nasal pillow mask.  If you can’t get one through insurance, order one from an online supplier.  See the Supplier list at top of page.  Most offer a 30 day trial.

Regardless of what mask you wear, try using it before you go to bed.
Even though it’s not always convenient, move your machine to another room.  Put on your mask, turn on the machine and read or watch TV for an hour.  Then move it all back to your bedroom and sleep, (with the mask on.)  

You can break this cycle.  Think of your health and especially your heart, which takes a beating with “untreated” apnea.  

You can do this.   Smile
OpalRose
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#8
RE: Hard time falling asleep with mask on.
(05-02-2019, 11:05 AM)Paris66 Wrote: Have been on a bipap for 7 months and things are better than in the beginning, however, still not totally successful. I cannot fall asleep with the mask on.  So, I wait until I wake up to go to the bathroom (middle of night) before I put on the mask.   Does anyone have suggestions as to how to fall asleep with the mask on.  I toss and turn for an hour and then just take it off.

Also, a few weeks ago, my face felt somewhat numb early evening. Felt like I had the mask on when I didn't.  I checked to see if I could smile, etc. and it was all there.  I was wondering if it was the suction of the full face mask.  I went a week without putting it on because I felt I needed a break.  The pressure is comfortable, finally.  I was over the top at one point.

I'll take any suggestions.  Have heart issues and know I need to be on this machine, but it is so hard!!

It's not easy to adapt for some, others take to it like a duck to water.


When you put on the mask, do not tighten it up to tight.
Wait until your breathing has settled before you attempt to put it on in the first place.
When you are settled and calm, put the mask on and when ready start the machine.
If you have EPR (Expiry Pressure Relief) turn it on, this will help you adapt easier to the pressure of breathing out against the machine.
Use the humidifier if you have one, turn it on and slowly turn it up until you get the humidity you need.

Tips for getting used to the mask is to sit with it on at night before going to bed with the hose disconnected, just so you get used to it on your face.
When you get used to this you can try sitting with the machine connected at night before going to bed.
It is just a case of getting used to it.

Some people get the machine with to low a pressure (especially APAPs) and people can feel they are not getting enough air, get it adjusted if this is the case.
A lot of it is making it work and the only person that can do this is yourself.
However, some doctors don't do much to help and are not good at giving advice.

If you have any questions please ask.
I am NOT a doctor.  I try to help, but do not take what I say as medical advice.


Every journey, however large or small starts with the first step.

Sleep-well
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#9
RE: Hard time falling asleep with mask on.
(05-02-2019, 01:36 PM)Sleep2Snore Wrote:
(05-02-2019, 11:05 AM)Paris66 Wrote: Have been on a bipap for 7 months and things are better than in the beginning, however, still not totally successful. I cannot fall asleep with the mask on.  So, I wait until I wake up to go to the bathroom (middle of night) before I put on the mask.   Does anyone have suggestions as to how to fall asleep with the mask on.  I toss and turn for an hour and then just take it off.

Also, a few weeks ago, my face felt somewhat numb early evening. Felt like I had the mask on when I didn't.  I checked to see if I could smile, etc. and it was all there.  I was wondering if it was the suction of the full face mask.  I went a week without putting it on because I felt I needed a break.  The pressure is comfortable, finally.  I was over the top at one point.

I'll take any suggestions.  Have heart issues and know I need to be on this machine, but it is so hard!!

It's not easy to adapt for some, others take to it like a duck to water.


When you put on the mask, do not tighten it up to tight.
Wait until your breathing has settled before you attempt to put it on in the first place.
When you are settled and calm, put the mask on and when ready start the machine.
If you have EPR (Expiry Pressure Relief) turn it on, this will help you adapt easier to the pressure of breathing out against the machine.
Use the humidifier if you have one, turn it on and slowly turn it up until you get the humidity you need.

Tips for getting used to the mask is to sit with it on at night before going to bed with the hose disconnected, just so you get used to it on your face.
When you get used to this you can try sitting with the machine connected at night before going to bed.
It is just a case of getting used to it.

Some people get the machine with to low a pressure (especially APAPs) and people can feel they are not getting enough air, get it adjusted if this is the case.
A lot of it is making it work and the only person that can do this is yourself.
However, some doctors don't do much to help and are not good at giving advice.

If you have any questions please ask.

I second some of the above...

When I started out with a full face mask I used to get anxiety and freak out, almost like claustrophobic symptoms

I started out just lying in bed with it on, then as I got really sleepy, connected the hose & started.

I struggled alot with the Dreamstation I started with too....I realise now it was bad settings & poor advice...I have learnt more from Forums & talking to people.

I start now by lying in bed, getting my breathing pattern normal, before putting on the mask & starting the unit.....I have pretty good settings now & the Resmed "For Her" algorithm seems to suit me.

I still have night where I wake & take off the mask....I think I have also taken it off in my sleep...

I have improved though.

Stick with it, and get further advice.....don't believe everything your "specialist" tells you....my first one was employed by Philips to sell Philips by stealth, that's was her primary function...trying to sign me up!

Stick with it, you CAN and WILL conquer this!
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#10
RE: Hard time falling asleep with mask on.
If you haven't yet, I would suggest you try the Philips Dreamwear Full Face Mask. I used to wear the AirFit and AirTouch F20 (similar to your Quattro) then I experimented and finally settled on the DW FFM. It's less intrusive and allows for better seal when sleeping on the side which often, for me at least, the position that leads me to sleep.
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