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Hardcore Sleeping!
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Hardcore Sleeping!
Our wiring does not have the third wire. Grounding is hit or miss and, based on tests, is more miss than hit. But this is another topic for another thread. Thanks for the advice, though!

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04-12-2012 08:19 PM
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greatunclebill Offline

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Post: #12
RE: Hardcore Sleeping!
(04-12-2012 08:19 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  Our wiring does not have the third wire. Grounding is hit or miss and, based on tests, is more miss than hit. But this is another topic for another thread. Thanks for the advice, though!

i was saying that in your case the conduit itself that goes to the main electrical panel could be the ground, not a third wire that you don't have. you plug the 3 wire unit into the 3 wire adapter plug with a wire hanging out, that goes into the 2 wire outlet where you screw the hanging wire into the middle screw of the outlet cover. the screw actually goes into the box and the box is connected to the conduit. i just wanted to make that clear. agreed it is for another thread.
04-12-2012 09:09 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Hardcore Sleeping!
(04-12-2012 08:05 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  Not sure a good UPS would tolerate that. This house is about as grounded as, well, something totally not grounded.

The third prong is a safety ground that's not used during normal operation. One of the two other prongs is the real ground used in the operation of any electrical device.

I probably wouldn't go out and buy a UPS. I just happened to have an old one that wasn't being used, so I plugged my CPAP into it. It probably wouldn't run too long in an extended outage, but it does let me sleep through those little ones that we get every once in a while. If we get an extended outage from a hurricane or something, I'd have to get the battery out of my car and hook it up. I've got the cord and I'm ready for it!

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
04-13-2012 08:27 PM
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SuperSleeper Offline

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Post: #14
RE: Hardcore Sleeping!
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's correct to say that because you don't have a modern wiring system with a third grounding wire that you don't have your house wiring grounded...

Our house was built in 1927 and has the older 2-conductor house wire with a white-insulated and a black-insulated wire (no separate ground wire). The white wire is the neutral and the black is the hot wire. I was always told that the white neutral wire goes to ground... if I look at our electrical box (circuit breaker) the white wires are grounded to our cold water pipes.

Whenever I installed a new 3 wire fixture in our house, I always attach the fixture's ground and neutral wire together, then attach that to the neutral wire (white wire) of the house wiring. Then attach the (usually red) live fixture wire to the black (live) wire of the house wiring.

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04-13-2012 08:48 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Hardcore Sleeping!
(04-13-2012 08:48 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote:  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's correct to say that because you don't have a modern wiring system with a third grounding wire that you don't have your house wiring grounded...

You are correct, sir!

Quote:Our house was built in 1927 and has the older 2-conductor house wire with a white-insulated and a black-insulated wire (no separate ground wire).

It's called knob-and-tube wiring.

Quote:The white wire is the neutral and the black is the hot wire. I was always told that the white neutral wire goes to ground... if I look at our electrical box (circuit breaker) the white wires are grounded to our cold water pipes. Whenever I installed a new 3 wire fixture in our house, I always attach the fixture's ground and neutral wire together, then attach that to the neutral wire (white wire) of the house wiring. Then attach the (usually red) live fixture wire to the black (live) wire of the house wiring.

Right. The third wire used in more modern wiring schemes, called the ground wire, is simply a separate neutral wire that connects to the white neutral wire at the circuit breaker box. Code calls for two separate neutral wires so that there are two separate paths to ground. It's for safety. As long as everything is hooked up properly, and there are no failures of the wiring, the safety ground is entirely redundant.

Both the neutral wire and the ground wire are held at a fixed potential of zero volts. The hot wire has a potential that varies with time, oscillating between +170 volts and -170 volts.

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04-13-2012 09:46 PM
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Dreamcatcher Offline

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Post: #16
RE: Hardcore Sleeping!
please stop playing with the wires before you lot kill yourselfs. The ground wire is green but it is called the "Earth" wire. You have a blue wire which is neutral and a brown wire that is the LIVE wire and whats with the 2 pin plugs we got rid of them in the 60's

[Image: plug_large.jpg]

Now can someone please explain to me how we got from Hardcore sleeping to re-wiring someones house? Oh-jeez Its like chinese whispers. Did some one start talking about the topic then shouted left turn and we've ended up at wiring. Think Im going to grab the popcorn and see where we end up Too-funnyLaugh-a-lotEat-popcorn
04-14-2012 12:29 AM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Hardcore Sleeping!
Keep up!

Someone said he used a battery backup (UPS) on his CPAP so he could sleep through a power outage at night.

Then I said it would be great except I don't have a 3 prong outlet in my bedroom (actually, the room only has one outlet).

Then...it went from there.

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04-14-2012 12:45 AM
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Post: #18
RE: Hardcore Sleeping!
(04-14-2012 12:45 AM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  Keep up!

Someone said he used a battery backup (UPS) on his CPAP so he could sleep through a power outage at night.

Then I said it would be great except I don't have a 3 prong outlet in my bedroom (actually, the room only has one outlet).

Then...it went from there.

Why didnt you wake me Laugh-a-lot
04-14-2012 01:12 AM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Hardcore Sleeping!
(04-14-2012 12:29 AM)Dreamcatcher Wrote:  please stop playing with the wires before you lot kill yourselfs.

I'm 56 and have been playing with the wires since I was about 12. That's 44 years of playing. I've learned a lot and I'm still alive, so I guess I could stop now. Too-funny

Quote:The ground wire is green but it is called the "Earth" wire. You have a blue wire which is neutral and a brown wire that is the LIVE wire

The green wire is called Earth on your side of the pond, but over here we call it ground.

Your blue wire is white over here, and your brown live wire is our black hot wire.

Quote: and whats with the 2 pin plugs we got rid of them in the 60's

We didn't quite go that far. (We call them prongs, not pins. We have pins on our vacuum tubes, the things you call valves.) We added the third prong to our wall receptacles, but can still have two-prong appliances -- the neutral prong is wider, making it impossible to reverse the polarity. Some of our more heavy-duty electrical devices, such as power tools, computers, and UPS's, have three-prong plugs. That's why Paula would have a problem trying to plug in a UPS.

Older houses are still wired with two conductors, but if we remodel or in any way want to connect to it and add on to it, we have to "bring it up to code" as we say, and replace it with the three-conductor scheme.

And what I said about the potential of the hot wire oscillating between +170 volts and -170 volts isn't true over there. Your's oscillates between +340 volts and -340 volts. Ours oscillates 60 times per second, yours 50 times per second.

The amazing thing is that my PRS1 machine can connect to both. (Uh oh ... I'm bringing the discussion back on topic!) That way, if I ever go visit my daughter in England again, I won't have to use one of her giant transformers. I just need a simple adapter to change our prongs into your pins. (And the PRS has a two-prong plug!)

By the way, I envy you and your higher voltage. You can make a cup of tea four times faster than we can in our electric kettles. We do have the option of using the higher voltage, our houses are wired for it, but its just for large appliances like ovens and clothes dryers. I'd love to run a high voltage line to my kitchen and connect one of your tea kettles.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
04-14-2012 11:15 AM
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Post: #20
RE: Hardcore Sleeping!
My home is from the 60's....so I only have 2 wire.

I haven't checked...but some places, its against code to use neutral as ground.

The other thing about power over there.....is if you touch it a 120V/60Hz line...you'll have trouble letting go of it. While if you touch a 240V/50Hz line, it'll kick you across the room.

I wish I could get one of those super fast tea kettles.....

You may be a dreamer, but I'm The Dreamer, the definite article you might say!
04-20-2012 10:11 PM
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