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Have I found a solution for full face mask users?
#11
RE: Have I found a solution for full face mask users?
(02-17-2020, 08:35 AM)Sleeprider Wrote: The ability to block air from the mouth is central to using nasal therapy effectively and comfortably.  I keep a "Bubba Cup" of ice water with a straw in it next to bed at night. Last night I was thirsty and rolled over to sip a drink while not breaking therapy. So you can not only open your mouth, you can talk and drink under pressure.

I just can not imagine how you can do this.

Once you are asleep how do you keep your tongue in place....seems impossible.
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#12
RE: Have I found a solution for full face mask users?
The method requires training and/or practice to perfect it for us to retain the ability while sleeping. However most all of us do this daily without thinking. When you breathe in and out through your nose, notice that your mouth doesn't get air pressurized. Why? The tongue is blocking it I believe.

PS I'd not quit CPAP if you can't get the tongue suck method down. You may need to try other masks, even full face. If you were prescribed CPAP, there was a potentially serious risk to your health without it.
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#13
RE: Have I found a solution for full face mask users?
Thanks a lot for your input....I appreciate it.

Randy
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#14
RE: Have I found a solution for full face mask users?
Randarino,
Ask yourself this....where is my tongue right now?

If your not talking or eating, I bet it's resting at the roof of your mouth.

If you make yourself aware of this at night, eventually it just becomes habit.  Keep trying. Smile
OpalRose
Apnea Board Administrator
www.apneaboard.com

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.  ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA.  INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#15
RE: Have I found a solution for full face mask users?
I had no issues with mouth breathing for years.

Now I do. But I'm claustrophobic. So I can't/won't wear full face masks. I've tried 8 of them on loan.

I'm considering getting a full face mask on loan again. the F30 from ResMed intrigues me.

Meantime, I'm sitting here trying pushing my tongue up behind my teeth, sucking my tongue up. I'll give that a try.
I appreciate the OP's post here and comments that followed. Time this old dog relearned old tricks. Back to it.

DaveL
DaveL
compliant for 35 years /// Still trying!

I'm just a cpap user like you. I don't give medical advice. Seek the advice of a physician before seeking treatment for medical conditions including sleep apnea. Sleep-well

http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.php..._The_Guide

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#16
RE: Have I found a solution for full face mask users?
I, too, am baffled at how people control this when asleep. I spend my whole day naturally doing what this method recommends (the resting, not the sucking), so I normally nose breathe. But when I am in bed, I can position and suck and stick it up there all I want, when I fall asleep, and my muscles relax, my tongue unsticks. There's no controlling it. I have a FFM, but my mouth opens, and the air and pressure lead to dry mouth.

I, too, have given up on PAP because of this (though I'm going to try again soon, because I don't know what else to do). Chin strap won't help. My mouth is closed when my tongue relaxes. Doesn't matter what position my jaw is in. Taping doesn't work for same reason, just leads to "chipmunk cheeks". Can't do collar because I can't deal with things around my neck. The only other option is those moisture mint things, which I may try, but I don't like that solution either.

The point is, I'm mystified by how some people don't have this problem. You can say that it takes practice, but, again, when you're asleep, none of that matters if the tongue fully relaxes. Again, you can say it's about training, but I spend all my time with my tongue at the front of my teeth, breathing comfortably through my nose. There's literally no more "training" for me to do!
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#17
RE: Have I found a solution for full face mask users?
I could never get the tongue thing to work for me. Chin straps didn't work either.

I thought I wouldn't be able to tolerate a full face mask, but it did work for me once I finally gave up on everything else and tried it.

I think the months I spent trying nasal masks and pillows acclimated me, and I was able to tolerate the full face mask.
Sleepster

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#18
RE: Have I found a solution for full face mask users?
Mouth Breathing
Mouth Breathing is when you open your mouth and the air pressure from your PAP is venting out your mouth typically showing on your charts as a large leak which can substantially negate the effectiveness of your therapy. It is generally not good. The solution varies depending on the person
With OSCAR look at your Leak Rate graph where it is shaded (large leak/ LL), flat tops on this graph suggest mouth breathing. In OSCAR right click on the left header of the Leak Rate graph and click on Dotted Lines then select "Leak Rate Upper Threshold" to get a line across the graph for ResMed. Manually set the value for Philips Respironics. Severity depends on how much over this threshold and for how long it is in the Large Leak territory.
How to manage Mouth Breathing, not in any particular order.
Tongue Trick. Place the tongue on the roof of the mouth, Practice during the daytime. The idea is to train the tongue that this is a good place to be, does not happen overnight, but it works for some. The tongue trick is where you want to be but it takes a lot of time and some people just cannot get it. 

  1. Place the tongue on the roof of your mouth and breathe with your mouth shut,  Breathing thru your nose, right? 
  2. Now leaving the tongue where it is open your mouth, you should still be breathing thru your nose. 
  3. Now that you have that down move your tongue, breathing thru your mouth right? 
  4. OK, put your mask on, under pressure, and repeat the above. 
  5. Expect to need to turn your machine off when you start to repeat. 
  6. Add talking while under pressure, 
It takes a while to get any of this down. It took me months. 

The exercises above are to help you understand the positions that cause the issue and how to correct it. For all this to become automatic will take a while.

Cervical Collar. A "soft" Cervical Collar (Releaf is popular). This helps support and align the neck and keeps the jaw/mouth from dropping. This is becoming a very popular option. Rarely used prior to mid 2016. Users are posting a high success rate with this device. When OA tends to occur in clusters at different times of night. It's an indication that an obstruction may have occurred when the chin tucks towards the chest. It's common, and the solution is either an ergonomic pillow or soft cervical collar that prevents the neck and head from being out of alignment and cutting off the airway, but they can be comfortable, prevent leaks and prevent an airway from closing up due to tucking your chin to chest and other issues. An Anti-Snoring collar or Sleep Collar, which has a small strap in back also works. (Dr. Dakota is popular)
It's a very small investment that has worked very well for some people. More pressure may solve the obstruction, or it might go away with positional therapy.
Chin Strap. A chin strap is to manage mouth leaks from a variety of causes. Most result from the jaw-dropping or opening either partially or wider. The chin strap is to gently keep the jaw closed. If you have to crank it shut to make it work this is not the correct solution. Note that your jaw is strong enough to open if it wants to. There is one chinstrap that is notably different than others, Knightsbridge Dual Chin Strap which pulls up instead of back. Search for it if you desire.
Ergonomic Pillow or CPAP Pillow, The purpose is to maintain a proper head and neck alignment while allowing for the mask maintaining the seal in multiple positions.
Mouth Guard The concept here is a closed mouth guard to keep the air from leaking out.
Taping. Definitely the most controversial. The purpose of taping is to seal the lips and prevent mouth leaks/mouth breathing. It is not to stop the mouth from opening. I make sure that I can easily open my mouth when taped, if I need to.
FFM – Full Face Mask or Hybrid Mask. This is a very traditional solution and it is generally effective.
Dry mouth is a symptom mouth breathing that is uncomfortable. It can and does occur with some users of a Full Face Mask.

  • Many users use a product called Biotene to get relief from this symptom.
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#19
RE: Have I found a solution for full face mask users?
(02-18-2020, 06:44 PM)jomama Wrote: I fall asleep, and my muscles relax, my tongue unsticks. There's no controlling it

I do understood this either. The tounge, being a muscle, should lose tone during deep and REM sleep and fall out of position.
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#20
RE: Have I found a solution for full face mask users?
Having watched my babies sleep, I've noticed some babies can keep the suckle on the pacifier all night long, and some are such mouth-breathers that the pacifier drops out and stays out for the night.

I was a mouth breather (day & night). When I got on CPAP, I taught myself the tongue trick.

My husband is a mouth breather. He has tried the tongue trick, with no luck. He sleeps much deeper than I do - perhaps that's part of it?

If one can't learn the tongue trick, then it would be beneficial to make peace with a FFM.
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