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[Health] No CPAP During Sinus Surgery Recovery
#11
(06-17-2016, 07:42 AM)green wings Wrote: Does air really go up our noses any faster than usual when we're using CPAP? It feels more like there's a stream of air that's going by the end of my nose and out my mask vent, and I inhale air from that stream as needed, at a normal inhalation rate.

This is a simple matter of physics. Your airway is in effect a closed tube. So think of a fan at one end of a pipe open at the other end. The fan will blow air through the pipe and it will exit at the other end. The speed will depend on the rate the fan blows. Now close off the other end. The air cannot exit and so after the first very short period of time it takes the pressure from the fan to reach the other end it will not flow at all. Instead the pressure inside the pipe will rise and stay raised as long as the fan blows.

Your breathing pipes don't have a hole in the other end (or if they do you are in big big trouble) so after a very short period of time the internal pressure will rise but the air won't move any faster or any slower. The added pressure will cause a force to push the membranes in your breathing passages to expand and keep them open. It's the pressure inside your airway that forces the airway open because by comparison the outside air is now a slight vacuum.

10 cm of water pressure, by the way, is only about 1% of the normal outside air pressure at sea level.
Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

The above is my opinion.  It is just possible that I may, occasionally, be mistaken.

I am neither a Doctor, nor any other kind of medical professional.

Everything put together sooner or later falls apart.
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#12
Rule of thumb: if you have doubts about what a medical practitioner is telling you, consider getting a second opinion.
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#13
Wow, Sleepster, that would be a hard decision. It would be tough not being able to use the CPAP for an extended period. Best of luck whichever way you decide to go.

"....respiration,—a troublesome practice, but one which custom has rendered necessary to our easy existence...." Oliver Twist, Charles Dickens- 1837

I use FlashPAP to load data from a FlashAir III wifi sd card in my machine to my computer and display it with SleepyHead .
robysue's Beginner's Guide to SleepyHead
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#14
Thanks, Ed. Sounds like we're thinking about it in the same way.

What I haven't managed to get my head around yet is what may be happening to the pressures in the pleural cavity. From what little I've read about the breathing cycle, pleural cavity pressure normally varies from about -5cm to -8cm to -5cm during the cycle of a breath.


[Image: breathing_pressures.gif]






(06-17-2016, 09:22 PM)eseedhouse Wrote:
(06-17-2016, 07:42 AM)green wings Wrote: Does air really go up our noses any faster than usual when we're using CPAP? It feels more like there's a stream of air that's going by the end of my nose and out my mask vent, and I inhale air from that stream as needed, at a normal inhalation rate.

This is a simple matter of physics. Your airway is in effect a closed tube. So think of a fan at one end of a pipe open at the other end. The fan will blow air through the pipe and it will exit at the other end. The speed will depend on the rate the fan blows. Now close off the other end. The air cannot exit and so after the first very short period of time it takes the pressure from the fan to reach the other end it will not flow at all. Instead the pressure inside the pipe will rise and stay raised as long as the fan blows.

Your breathing pipes don't have a hole in the other end (or if they do you are in big big trouble) so after a very short period of time the internal pressure will rise but the air won't move any faster or any slower. The added pressure will cause a force to push the membranes in your breathing passages to expand and keep them open. It's the pressure inside your airway that forces the airway open because by comparison the outside air is now a slight vacuum.

10 cm of water pressure, by the way, is only about 1% of the normal outside air pressure at sea level.

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#15
(06-18-2016, 07:39 AM)green wings Wrote: Thanks, Ed. Sounds like we're thinking about it in the same way.

What I haven't managed to get my head around yet is what may be happening to the pressures in the pleural cavity. From what little I've read about the breathing cycle, pleural cavity pressure normally varies from about -5cm to -8cm to -5cm during the cycle of a breath.

-5 to -8 referred to what?

According to Wikipedia the pleural cavity is filled with liquid. Liquids will generally be incompressible I believe, especially if they are mainly water which would be true inside any living organism since we are basically made of water.

I think you may be overthinking this. Of course every description of the real world simplfies things. Your breathing system is not totally closed at the far end since the human diaphragm is a flexible membrane (and need to be so it can make you breath) , but for practical purposes it behaves as if it were with the pressures applied by CPAP machines.


Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

The above is my opinion.  It is just possible that I may, occasionally, be mistaken.

I am neither a Doctor, nor any other kind of medical professional.

Everything put together sooner or later falls apart.
Post Reply Post Reply
#16
(06-17-2016, 09:22 PM)eseedhouse Wrote: This is a simple matter of physics. Your airway is in effect a closed tube. So think of a fan at one end of a pipe open at the other end. The fan will blow air through the pipe and it will exit at the other end. The speed will depend on the rate the fan blows. Now close off the other end. The air cannot exit and so after the first very short period of time it takes the pressure from the fan to reach the other end it will not flow at all. Instead the pressure inside the pipe will rise and stay raised as long as the fan blows.

Your breathing pipes don't have a hole in the other end (or if they do you are in big big trouble) so after a very short period of time the internal pressure will rise but the air won't move any faster or any slower. The added pressure will cause a force to push the membranes in your breathing passages to expand and keep them open. It's the pressure inside your airway that forces the airway open because by comparison the outside air is now a slight vacuum.

Hey, that's almost exactly what I said.

OMMOHY
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#17
I'm considering getting a dental appliance made for just those six nights when I'm recovering from the sinus surgery and can't use my CPAP machine. Crazy, I know, but I'm dreading the whole affair and want to do everything I can to hedge my bets.

I have an appointment with a neurologist next Friday to discuss my dizziness and I've decided to wait until after that appt to make the decision on having the surgery. The way I feel now, I'm leaning towards it. I don't think there's any other way I'll feel better and be able to enjoy life again.

Oh, yeah. The fee for the dental appliance is $630. Does that sound right?
Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#18
It was about $1000 including followup in Canada (in Canadian Pesos) so that seems reasonable. Which one is it. The dentist that I saw raved about the Somnodent. But she also said it can take months and repeated adjustments for it to be effective, so it may not help you out much.
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#19
I don't know know the brand name. I understand that it has to be adjusted for comfort, but I hope this is something I can do myself. I believe the idea is to move the lower jaw forward as much as possible without causing discomfort. As far as effectiveness goes, well, the only way I know to measure that is with a sleep study. I guess you can go by how you feel, but that's very subjective and there are lots of other factors that affect how you feel, and those factors can change daily.

One thing I might do is wear while using my CPAP machine. Then I can look at the data and see if it's at least allowing for a lower pressure.
Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#20
So, sleepster, what did you decide on, and how's it going? I'm considering balloon sinuplasty, so I'm reading a bunch of threads here.

If you haven't already had the surgery, consider this: you went without your cpap machine for how long, after diagnosis and while waiting for sleep studies and a machine to be assigned to you? Is a week without cpap now so totally inconceivable? Mightn't you be sleeping in a lounge chair anyway, for the drainage from the surgery? [For me, sleeping sitting up means I'm totally clogged and can't use my cpap anyway.]

Anyway -- what's the word on the surgery?
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