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Heart Rate Variability - Anyone looked into this?
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lowT Offline

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Post: #21
RE: Heart Rate Variability - Anyone looked into this?
(07-23-2015 05:32 PM)DocWils Wrote:  Correct on all counts- you need to be hooked up to an EEG to get a good diagnosis on this. I would do the sleep test before the Testosterone treatment, because Testosterone may be a blind alley, or worse, mask the real problem. Nothing in your readings pointed to apnoea events, so I seriously thing you need to look at your thyroid, your brain and other possible explanations. Good luck.

Thanks. I wasn't really looking in the right direction! It seems that EDS (excessive daytime sleepiness) and hypersomnia might be a good fit for me. I need to look into this further. But the questions is if the low testosterone could be causing this? The fact that I have needed a nap since I was 20 (completely exhausted by 3-4 pm) might indicate I have had EDS for some time (and probably before I had any testosterone problems).

As far as thryoid goes, I have had a lot of testing on that and it is all good. I really want to do the sleep study, but at a cost of $1500, I am not sure it is the right thing to do first? My thought is that I can try the testosterone and see how I feel. Perhaps the sleep issue is directly due to low testosterone. And that would allow me to save some cost. Plus it looks like I will need to be on that either way so shouldn't I establish a "new baseline" moving forward? I guess that is a bit of a chicken and the egg.

Either way, frustrating as heck, but I think things are coming to head now (no pun intended).
(This post was last modified: 07-23-2015 06:01 PM by lowT.)
07-23-2015 05:58 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #22
RE: Heart Rate Variability - Anyone looked into this?
My thought would be that a neurological problem would cause a decrease of testosterone, not the other way around. You see, finding the cause for the low testosterone count (besides age, of course, which is a big factor) would be the first step in treatment, and already raising the testosterone would mask any possible cause.
07-24-2015 05:49 AM
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lowT Offline

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Post: #23
RE: Heart Rate Variability - Anyone looked into this?
I know that guys with sleep apnea can have reduced testosterone. Their levels can increase by about 30% once the sleep apnea is corrected. But a couple things are a challenge in this case:

- Even if I were to get a 30% increase in T, it still wouldn't be a sufficient enough increase to bring me into the "normal" range. It seems I would still end up on testosterone anyway.
- If it is a neurological problem (and assuming I even know what that means, haha), isn't the course of treatment just medication that eases the EDS? I don't know that this would actually "fix" anything such that testosterone could be improved?
- Is there any potential treatment that could actually increase testosterone? Or is treatment just a maintenance of sleep patterns via medication.

In the event of obstructive sleep apnea, the problem can be "fixed" while using a CPAP, without drugs. I am not sure that would be the case for neurological related sleep issues though? Of course, this is assuming it is a neurological problem, but for kicks lets assume that for the time being.

And I totally agree with you about finding the cause of the low T. I have been searching hard for that answer for 9 months and it has been tough. I have exhausted every other route. I am really ready for some treatment. Let me think about this some more. I have accepted that I need to spend the money on the study, but I am curious to see if testosterone treatment will resolve the sleep problems. Especially since sleep related treatment may involve drugs (ugggh) and doesn't seem to fix the root cause anyway?

---

FYI I went ahead an scheduled the study. Since I have to keep sleep records for 2 weeks and they are backup up anyway, I it gives me time to do a quick trial of testosterone and they cycle off it. It also gives me time to adjust to move my sleep schedule up a couple hours to better fit the 2 day study. The study will be in about 6 weeks. I am convinced that I am going to do it, so with or without testosterone, it is going to happen at least.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2015 10:30 AM by lowT.)
07-24-2015 10:05 AM
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eseedhouse Offline

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Post: #24
RE: Heart Rate Variability - Anyone looked into this?
(07-24-2015 05:49 AM)DocWils Wrote:  My thought would be that a neurological problem would cause a decrease of testosterone, not the other way around. You see, finding the cause for the low testosterone count (besides age, of course, which is a big factor) would be the first step in treatment, and already raising the testosterone would mask any possible cause.

I was on Testosterone for around a year, and at the end I became aware that I was developing oedema in my legs and got to a doctor. I saw an internist at the local hospital and he asked me to stop the testosterone as it is a risk factor for heart failure, which it turned out I did not have. He also put me on insulin for my diabetes and said he would bet I had sleep apnea. He ordered an overnight oxymetry which I failed and then a sleep study was ordered. Medicare payed for everything and it took around 10 months to get the sleep study, and I was in the meantime referred to a resperologist.

I was tested for T levels which were very low before I went on the testosterone, by the way.

The upshot is that now, over a year after that visit to the E.R. and eight months of APAP treatment with supplemental oxygen I am still off the testosterone, on insulin (NPH) and while it took some time my energy levels are a lot better with the insulin, APAP and O2 at night, and without any testosterone supplement than I ever had on the testosterone alone.

So I suggest that such supplements shouldn't just be predicated on a measured low testosterone production alone without taking steps first to address other medical concerns which, as you suggest, testosterone supplementation may be masking.

Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

I am neither a Doctor, nor any other kind of medical professional.

Actually you know, it is what it isn't.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2015 03:40 PM by eseedhouse.)
07-24-2015 03:38 PM
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