Help...Unsure if apnea is causing my severe insomnia

[Reznik]

One more thing: I'm also trying a CPAP now, but am having the same trouble that you did - harder to get to sleep and the damn thing keeps waking me up. A couple of things that I've discovered:

1. Don't put the machine on until you're almost asleep. I cannot unwind and fall asleep with the damn thing on unless I'm almost ready to doze off.
2. I've given up the auto-adjusting mode for now. When the pressure goes up as I sleep, it wakes me up more often than the apneas (or whatever) do.
3. I'm going to start in non-adjusting CPAP mode at a relatively low pressure, i.e. something that's comfortable (about 6.0 or maybe a little less), but may not be much better than not using a CPAP at all. Once I get comfortable with it, then I'm going to bump the pressure up slowly.
4. I think I'm going to restrict myself to using the CPAP once or twice a week, with at least a day in between, until I feel like I can get a good night's sleep with it. Doing it two nights in a row leaves me a mess.
5. The smell from the soaps that they use to clean the mask and the hose before they pack up and ship them to me gives me headaches, so I rinsed them thoroughly with vinegar and then with hot water. Originaly, I made a huge mess in the kitchen trying to rinse them. Now, I just stand in the bathtub and do it there. Our water spigot in the tub happens to fix perfectly to connect to the CPAP hose so I can blast it with warm, fresh water and get all the residue out of it and the mask really easily.

Good luck, and keep us posted here if anything works for you.

[HalfAsleep]

Hello,


Sorry for the very long venting out post but I'm desperate for help and hoping to find some sort of relieve on this forum.

I'm a 38 year old male. I'm kind of a gym rat. I've been going to the gym 3-4 times a week since I was 15 years old. I run approx 9 miles every week and lift weight including body weight exercises. My height is 5 foot 10 and I weigh 175 pounds. So I'm not puffed up with muscles like body builders. I'm very lean with very low to zero body fat. In short, I don't have weight issues (neither excess fat nor excess muscles). However, Iv been suffering from severe insomnia for over 5 years now.

Having a very low body fat is extremely destructive to vital organs, including the brain, which manages sleep. Very low body fat is generally called malnutrition or anorexia. This would likely be a good place to start for your difficulties with insomnia. No doubt your PCP can be helpful here.

[Walla Walla]

Insomnia can very tough to nail down. One of the easy things you can check out is diet. Look to see if your eating or drinking anything that might be keeping you awake. You talk about working out a lot. Do you take supplements that might have something in them that keeps you awake? Just a few things to look at. There are others here that know more about it than me and should be able to help you out.

[Cpapian]

I am also a sufferer of insomnia. Some days I am better at conquering it ...... other days not so good.

There is a book which is recommended called "sound sleep, sound mind" by barry krakow, m.d. I have to tell you I tried it but found it borring and it had to go back to the library. But ..... the bit I did read helped me. I am going to buy it and if nothing else I will read it on the nights I can't sleep.

Couple of points I have learned from others,

Don't lie in bed more than 20 minutes when you can't sleep. Get up sit in the dark, or a night light, no screens (blue light). When you feel sleepy go back to bed. You have to feel sleepy to go to bed. I drink warmed milk.

There is something new that is 10 or 20 times worse than caffeine. Hopefully, someone will chime in with its name. It's in a lot of those energy drinks.

Another thing I recently learned is that when I think I have been awake for a long time, I have actually been asleep. It was a light sleep, but knowing this has helped me relax when I am sleepless. It's a head game, but it has worked for me.

With respect to the CPAP, you have already built up a degree of blame. I don't know how you will over come this. Perhaps work on your insomnia first. When that is settled, try CPAP in the daytime watching TV or reading a book. Weird yes, but you need to normalize it somewhat. Try an afternoon nap with it. I know, I know, sleep hygiene says no daytime naps .....but wouldn't that be poetic justice.

I think you mentioned you follow sleep hygiene, but if you didn't know to not lie in bed longer than 20 minutes, then you don't know sleep hygiene.

All melatonin pills are not created equal, some aren't what they say they are and others add stuff. That's why I use milk. It either works or doesn't work, but I know what I am getting.

I hope something in the above will help you. It's really lousy to be awake when you want to sleep.

[lubsie]

After living with post-menopause insomnia for over 8 years, I went to Insomnia Class for 8 weeks.
Learned many of our meds and supplements can be loaded with caffeine, for example, Tylenol.
Besides no computer or TV an hour near bedtime, I avoid spicy foods after lunch and no caffeine after breakfast.
(Even a bit mild Italian sausage in my spaghetti sauce would have kept me awake.)

I started cpap therapy March 2015. Cpap only added to my sleep challenges till I upgraded to a DreamStation and Dreamwear nasal mask. But I was still reaching out to Ambien much too often. In August 2017, I decided to try acupuncture for insomnia, my sleep has improved has improved so much, I am finally sleeping normally 90% of the time. YEAH! Thank you to my acupuncturist!

[Timur]

When I read threads like this about insomnia I recall the lowest time of my life when I developed very bad insomnia over a period of a few months.

In my case I had been sleeping pretty badly due to hormonal changes (age around 50) and then I got the diagnosis of sleep apnea which sent me into a complete downward spiral .... I simply could not sleep. I thought I would die from lack of sleep.

The hollow feeling of being sleep deprived gnaws at one. 

It's a very bleak place and combined with sleep apnea and CPAP the challenge can seem almost insurmountable. 

The answer is different for each of us. Insomnia is incredibly complicated, and what causes if for me, might not cause it for you. 

What worked for me might be of no use whatsoever for you, but here goes.

I read a book by Dr Guy Meadows called "The Sleep Book".  Basically his approach is that good sleepers do not have a bunch of rules and rituals that they follow to get to sleep. They simply go to bed and sleep. Associating sleep with elaborate dos and don'ts adds to the likelihood of  associating sleep with anxiety. Anxiety is the main obstacle to sleep. 

His approach is acceptance. If you don't sleep tonight, no biggie, tomorrow will still be ok. You will cope, you might feel tired, but all will be alright. And that is true, often the worse part of not sleeping are the thoughts in bed when we can't sleep and the anticipation during the day of not being able to sleep at night. 

I made peace with insomnia and no longer saw it as a "battle or a weakness,  and something that would kill me. It became something that would no longer hold me in its grip. I just accepted it as part of my life at that time.

Over time it got easier for me to fall asleep, and when I woke up after a few hours I would just lie in bed and relish the feeling of being able to rest, not sleep, just rest. What became important was rest not sleep. And with rest, sleep followed. 

Last night I slept for close to 8 1/2 hours. 

Two years ago I was lucky to get 3 hours a night.

Some nights I still have trouble sleeping, insomnia visits periodically. But I no longer let it own me. I know that no matter what I will cope the next day, and the next, and eventually I will find sleep, I just need to rest.

I really hope that you can find a solution.

[TonyP]

I am 74 and have increasing insomnia for the past few years. I know that age makes it harder to sleep. I had a "sleep study" - but was only asleep 1.5 hours over the course of the night. The sleep doc tells me I have severe obstructive apnea. My wife tells me I rarely snore. If I have sleep apnea, then it must be "central" sleep apnea. Before accepting the sleep apnea equipment, I would just like to see what my oximetry does throughout the night. What can I purchase to get an overnight reading? I find it hard to understand how sleep apnea can produce insomnia.  Thanks.
Tony Palmer

[TonyP]

Read your post. If I get into bed and can't fall asleep, how do docs explain that sleep apnea causes insomnia?
Thanks,
Tony Palmer

[CB91710]

Insomnia can very tough to nail down. One of the easy things you can check out is diet. Look to see if your eating or drinking anything that might be keeping you awake. You talk about working out a lot. Do you take supplements that might have something in them that keeps you awake? Just a few things to look at. There are others here that know more about it than me and should be able to help you out.

Bingo.

Apnea can certainly be a cause.  It can lead to a subconscious fear of sleep that will keep you awake.
For me, for some reason, Sunday nights were bad.   I could lay there from 11 until 2 or 3, then when I finally did go to sleep, I'd fully awaken every half hour until I got up at 4:30.
I didn't even realize it was apnea, and since becoming a hose head, I've had very few nights that I'm not out like a light within 1/2 hour, and wake up in the same position 5 hours later.

[Reznik]

Oximetry should have been part of your sleep study.  Ask your doctor for a copy of it.

Alternatively, you can try the Contec CMS-50F, which is a watch oximeter that you can leave on overnight to record your pulse oxygen rate and your pulse.