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High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
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nutricula Offline

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Post: #1
Idea High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
So I have been on my CPAP for about 3.5 months now, 2.5 of which I have been at my prescribed pressure. I was prescribed a pressure of 16, however I had to scale it up due to the difficulty of adjusting. I have spent quite a bit of time in Sleepyhead, and tried to log the days when I felt noticeably better than normal. One thing I quickly realized is it has been a higher respiratory rate, not a lower AHI, that has been an indicator (or so it seems) for a better nights sleep. I also seems like the respiratory rate in graph one represents me transitioning through the various sleep stages (See here: thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/i/i_11/i_11_p/i_11_p_cyc/i_11_p_cyc.html), while the one two it almost appears I didn't transition much at all. I have attached 3 graphs below, which are as follows:
1. High respiratory rate (95% = ~31), felt like a champ when I woke up.
2. Low respiratory rate (95% = ~20). Day after screenshot one, woke up and felt a bit tired. Had to fight taking a nap during the day.
3. Another example of a low respiratory rate, accompanied by a low AHI. Felt like crap (still better than before CPAP).

One thing I have noticed is if I eat extremely clean (fruit, vegetables, nuts, lean meat, and water only), I achieve consistently high respiratory rates. After about 3 or 4 days in a row, my mood is noticeably better (it still way better overall since starting the CPAP), and I feel like I can remember things that previously seemed to have slipped away.

I understand respiratory rates fluctuate and are different for everyone. That being said, I am curious if others are fluctuating as much as mine, and if that seems to correlate to how 'quality' sleep and subsequently better feeling the following day. Additionally, does anyone have any thoughts on how to maintain a high respiratory rate, outside of eating like a rabbit (which has been the only successful thing for me)?

(Sorry, wouldn't let me embed)
i.imgur.com/P6KEt0a.png
i.imgur.com/asAaaQk.png
i.imgur.com/PI3T9mV.png
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2015 09:24 PM by nutricula.)
04-05-2015 09:21 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #2
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
(04-05-2015 09:21 PM)nutricula Wrote:  So I have been on my CPAP for about 3.5 months now, 2.5 of which I have been at my prescribed pressure. I was prescribed a pressure of 16, however I had to scale it up due to the difficulty of adjusting. I have spent quite a bit of time in Sleepyhead, and tried to log the days when I felt noticeably better than normal. One thing I quickly realized is it has been a higher respiratory rate, not a lower AHI, that has been an indicator (or so it seems) for a better nights sleep. I also seems like the respiratory rate in graph one represents me transitioning through the various sleep stages (See here: thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/i/i_11/i_11_p/i_11_p_cyc/i_11_p_cyc.html), while the one two it almost appears I didn't transition much at all. I have attached 3 graphs below, which are as follows:
1. High respiratory rate (95% = ~31), felt like a champ when I woke up.
2. Low respiratory rate (95% = ~20). Day after screenshot one, woke up and felt a bit tired. Had to fight taking a nap during the day.
3. Another example of a low respiratory rate, accompanied by a low AHI. Felt like crap (still better than before CPAP).

One thing I have noticed is if I eat extremely clean (fruit, vegetables, nuts, lean meat, and water only), I achieve consistently high respiratory rates. After about 3 or 4 days in a row, my mood is noticeably better (it still way better overall since starting the CPAP), and I feel like I can remember things that previously seemed to have slipped away.

I understand respiratory rates fluctuate and are different for everyone. That being said, I am curious if others are fluctuating as much as mine, and if that seems to correlate to how 'quality' sleep and subsequently better feeling the following day. Additionally, does anyone have any thoughts on how to maintain a high respiratory rate, outside of eating like a rabbit (which has been the only successful thing for me)?

(Sorry, wouldn't let me embed)
i.imgur.com/P6KEt0a.png
i.imgur.com/asAaaQk.png
i.imgur.com/PI3T9mV.png

Why are you running an Autoset machine at fixed pressure?

Generally, ones respiratory rate is lower in the deeper stages of sleep.
And comparing the 95% numbers doesn't make sense. The 95% numbers mean you are at or above that number only 5% of the time.
Comparing median respiratory rates would make more sense.

looks like your respiratory rate graph may have an artifact that makes the rate look 2X.
One would have to magnify a portion of the flow waveform to see if it's triggering from IPAP to/from IPAP-EPR on a wiggle in the flow waveform.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2015 06:20 AM by justMongo.)
04-06-2015 06:10 AM
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brianwood619 Online

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Post: #3
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
Higher respiratory rates reduce your carbon dioxide levels in your blood, if this keeps up go see your doctor, low co2 numbers are not good
04-06-2015 08:14 AM
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OMyMyOHellYes Offline

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Post: #4
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
(04-06-2015 08:14 AM)brianwood619 Wrote:  Higher respiratory rates reduce your carbon dioxide levels in your blood, if this keeps up go see your doctor, low co2 numbers are not good

Please help me understand. I would think low CO2 would be a VERY good thing as CO2 is a waste gas.

OMM
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2015 08:49 AM by OMyMyOHellYes.)
04-06-2015 08:34 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #5
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
(04-06-2015 08:34 AM)OMyMyOHellYes Wrote:  Please help me understand. I would think low CO2 would be a VERY good thing as CO2 is a waste gas.

OMM

Prima facie, one would think that's true.

CO2 levels need to be in balance because:
1) Central respiratory drive uses CO2 levels as one input to breathe.
2) CO2 dissolved in the blood factors into pH. (less CO2 = higher pH level.)

You've heard of hyperventilation... That's blowing off excessive CO2 causing respiratory alkalosis.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
04-06-2015 09:03 AM
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Lazer1234 Offline

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Post: #6
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
(04-06-2015 08:34 AM)OMyMyOHellYes Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 08:14 AM)brianwood619 Wrote:  Higher respiratory rates reduce your carbon dioxide levels in your blood, if this keeps up go see your doctor, low co2 numbers are not good

Please help me understand. I would think low CO2 would be a VERY good thing as CO2 is a waste gas.

OMM

Carbon dioxide is important to regulate the acid-base balance.
04-06-2015 09:04 AM
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trish6hundred Online

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Post: #7
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
Hi nutricula,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
Much success to you with your CPAP therapy.

trish6hundred
04-06-2015 09:24 AM
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OMyMyOHellYes Offline

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Post: #8
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
Ah. Thanks.

OMM
04-06-2015 09:26 AM
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Sleeprider Online
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Post: #9
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
I think it's interesting that there is an inverse correlation between your median respiratory rate and tidal volume. That is actually expected since as you take more rapid breaths, they also become smaller. So are you saying, you felt better the next day for image 3 than image 1 or 2? Seems counter intuitive.
[Image: asAaaQk.png]

[Image: P6KEt0a.png]

[Image: PI3T9mV.png]

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(This post was last modified: 04-06-2015 11:28 AM by Sleeprider.)
04-06-2015 09:28 AM
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AshSF Offline

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Post: #10
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
Your median minute ventilation is ~7L/min on all 3 nights which is normal. But on nights your respiratory rate is higher (18.1 bpm), your tidal volume is lower at 400ml. Your lungs are getting less O2 on that day (due to anatomical dead space being a fixed ~150ml of each breath). Looks like your breathing is more efficient on the day where your tidal volume is 500+.

So I don't think this is the reason for you feeling more refreshed on days with higher respiratory rate. Something else is at work. Chances are that your body is still adjusting to breathing against pressure (your I:E ratio is still less than 1:1. Normally it should be between 1:1 to 1:2). Your body will slowly normalize its breathing pattern over the first 6 months. Then, you should see which days you feel better.

Started APAP 4-20, Closed range to 7.5-14, then straight 8.0 w/ Aflex 3
RDI always below 1. But sleep much much better at straight pressure.
Started on F10, Tried Quattro Air successfully. Finally settled on P10.
04-06-2015 10:18 AM
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