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High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
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nutricula Offline

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Post: #11
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
(04-06-2015 06:10 AM)justMongo Wrote:  Why are you running an Autoset machine at fixed pressure?

The autoset machine was provided to me by the DME, paid for by my insurance. My prescription is for 16, however I have tried running in autoset mode and didn't find it worthwhile.

(04-06-2015 08:14 AM)brianwood619 Wrote:  Higher respiratory rates reduce your carbon dioxide levels in your blood, if this keeps up go see your doctor, low co2 numbers are not good

So you are suggesting that my respiratory rate is reducing my co2 to unsafe levels?

(04-06-2015 09:24 AM)trish6hundred Wrote:  Hi nutricula,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
Much success to you with your CPAP therapy.

Thank you!

(04-06-2015 09:28 AM)Sleeprider Wrote:  I think it's interesting that there is an inverse correlation between your median respiratory rate and tidal volume. That is actually expected since as you take more rapid breaths, they also become smaller. So are you saying, you felt better the next day for image 3 than image 1 or 2? Seems counter intuitive.

I felt better after the first image I posted, which had the highest respiratory rate. The high respiratory rate days also seem to often correlate to eating very healthy, for what its worth.
04-06-2015 05:12 PM
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nutricula Offline

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Post: #12
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
(04-06-2015 10:18 AM)AshSF Wrote:  Your median minute ventilation is ~7L/min on all 3 nights which is normal. But on nights your respiratory rate is higher (18.1 bpm), your tidal volume is lower at 400ml. Your lungs are getting less O2 on that day (due to anatomical dead space being a fixed ~150ml of each breath). Looks like your breathing is more efficient on the day where your tidal volume is 500+.

So I don't think this is the reason for you feeling more refreshed on days with higher respiratory rate. Something else is at work. Chances are that your body is still adjusting to breathing against pressure (your I:E ratio is still less than 1:1. Normally it should be between 1:1 to 1:2). Your body will slowly normalize its breathing pattern over the first 6 months. Then, you should see which days you feel better.

I have wondered if it would even out over the next few months. It still seems to bounce all over the place. See here: i.imgur.com/XWTqGFO.png

Again, this seems to correlate heavily to eating well. I initially thought the high respiratory rate accompanied by the heavy fluctuations was the process of going through the various sleep stages (see here: thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/i/i_11/i_11_p/i_11_p_cyc/i_11_p_cyc.html). Wouldn't this make sense?
04-06-2015 05:17 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #13
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
Your eating patterns can of course affect your sleep respiration to some extent, but mostly I get the impression that you are still too new to CPAP to have developed the breathing instinct needed for the pressures you are using. This can take a very long time, as you essentially have to relearn how to breath when sleeping, especially after years of apnoea has caused you to have completely other breathing pattern. Give it a fair amount of time - if it has not settled down in a year, then you can look at other causes. On the whole, you want to slow down your breathing considerably, as you cannot be processing your O2 sufficiently at that higher level of respiration when asleep, and if can indicate difficulty in reaching the various stages of sleep required for a healthy and restful night's sleep.

Remember, for a long time you body has been used to a very interrupted pattern of sleep at night, and now it does not know how to sleep. With time it will relearn the natural way of sleeping and your breathing should normalise, but in one go - it will take a long time for it to settle, and in the meantime, it will still show anomalous behaviour. Just be patient.
04-06-2015 05:35 PM
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TyroneShoes Offline

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Post: #14
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
I agree with Doc.

Another thing; resp rate is basically how "fast or slow" you breathe, if you look at this simplified, while tidal volume is essentially "how deep" you breathe. Both can affect what might be a more important metric to look at, which is your O2 sat levels. Ideally, your respiration is based on a feedback system, and one of the chief things that regulates how deep a breath you take, when you take it, and how often you take a breath, is your O2 sat level. One of the issues with sleep patients is that the feedback loop might not be always as perfect as we like, or that there may be a physical or medical issue (problems related to COPD are one example) that interferes with this.

Again, oversimplified, you want your O2 sat levels to remain above ~92%, or not really dip below that often, and you also want your CO2 levels to remain normal. Since you seem like the type that likes to really get under the hood, maybe an oximeter might be in order, so that you can track your O2 levels, and compare that to how you feel, which might be a more accurate comparison, or at least a better experiment. SH can incorporate that data. Not that you likely have an O2 issue, but it might satisfy your curiosity regarding this.

One more thing; If breathing against the pressure is an issue (16 seems like a bit of pressure to breathe against -- I have a top range of 14, and 18 or higher used to wake me prior to setting it to 14), you might want to look into EPR. It is not really all that smart to add new variables while you are trying to titrate yourself to the correct pressure range, which implies leaving settings where they are for a couple weeks at least before making a change, but EPR might be an exception. I have had mine at 3 all along; others have a raise in AHI when they attempt to use EPR. So it's sort of dealer's choice, but maybe something to consider.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2015 08:22 PM by TyroneShoes.)
04-06-2015 08:17 PM
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nutricula Offline

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Post: #15
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
Thank you DocWils and TyroneShoes, as well as everyone else that responded.

I will probably end up buying an oximeter, as I have already been contemplating it anyway. I think you both are right, and that I need to give it a bit more time to get settled in. I will also give EPR a shot. Thank you again!
04-08-2015 06:49 PM
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Mark Douglas Offline

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Post: #16
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
This is fascinating to me.
Even though when I am checked in Dr visits and oxygen levels are good I simply cannot hold my breath very long. I wonder if/how this relates to C02 regulation ? I would love to be able to dive in warm clear Caribbean water but if I got in trouble I would be in trouble really quick if that makes any sense.
When I finally have a PAP machine sounds like an O2 meter is a good idea also.
This is fascinating to me.
Even though when I am checked in Dr visits and oxygen levels are good I simply cannot hold my breath very long. I wonder if/how this relates to C02 regulation ? I would love to be able to dive in warm clear Caribbean water but if I got in trouble I would be in trouble really quick if that makes any sense.
When I finally have a PAP machine sounds like an O2 meter is a good idea also.

I use my PAP machine nightly and I feel great!
Updated: Philips Respironics System One (60 Series)
RemStar BiPAP Auto with Bi-FlexModel 760P -
Rise Time x3 Fixed Bi-Level EPAP 9.0 IPAP 11.5 (cmH2O)
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2015 07:48 AM by Mark Douglas.)
04-16-2015 07:47 AM
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Terry Offline

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Post: #17
RE: High Respiratory rate = Better sleep?
(04-16-2015 07:47 AM)Mark Douglas Wrote:  This is fascinating to me.
Even though when I am checked in Dr visits and oxygen levels are good I simply cannot hold my breath very long. I wonder if/how this relates to C02 regulation ? I would love to be able to dive in warm clear Caribbean water but if I got in trouble I would be in trouble really quick if that makes any sense.

Don't let that stop you.

SCUBA is completely different than CPAP, since you're always breathing exactly at ambient pressure.

All new divers breathe faster when they get excited or anxious. That's just something you take into account when planning your dive.
04-16-2015 08:39 AM
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