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Holden versus Ford (ResMed v Philips Respironics)
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DeepBreathing Offline
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Machine: Resmed S9 VPAP Adapt
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Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
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CPAP Pressure: EPAP: 9 - 15 PS: 3 - 10
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post: #1
Wink Holden versus Ford (ResMed v Philips Respironics)
Resmed v Philips Respironics - which is the best?

After a lot of faffing about with Resmed S9 Autoset, my clinic swapped me to a PR BiPAP Servo. The difference was immediate - centrals (which had been >50% of my AHI) virtually disappeared; OSA dropped significantly; hypopneas (which had never been an issue) suddenly jumped. AHI dropped from the high teens to around 8 - big improvement.

With the PS machine I was constantly aware of the machine assisting me to breathe - almost forcing me at times. The Sleepyhead charts showed hundreds of pressure pulses each night. After a few nights I learned to adjust my breathing to the machine's rhythm and started sleeping right through, quite comfortably. The design of the PS lacked aesthetic finesse, but it spends most of its life in a drawer, so that's OK.

After the BiPAP trial was up, it was time to choose a machine to purchase. The clinic don't actually recommend a particular brand, but they did indicate they have a lot more break-downs with the PS and repair times are excessive. Whether this was spin to push me to the product which gives them a higher margin, I don't know. I decided to go with the Resmed S9 VPAP Adapt for a number of reasons - first, they are made here in Australia (despite my grave reservations about Resmed's way of doing business). Second, I preferred the Resmed user interface, and third was the advice about reliability and repair.

First night with the Resmed I realised it's a very different beast from the PS. For a start, there was none of the regular pulse of breathing - it almost felt as if the machine wasn't pumping at all. However when I had a couple of episodes during the night it took the pressure way up - it felt quite brutal compared with the PS and actually woke me a couple of times. But apart from these episodes you'd barely know it was there.

After a week with the Resmed VPAP I have to say I like it a lot better than the PS. Apart from the occasional very high pressures, it's an extremely subtle device, very unintrusive. I don't have to think about my breathing rhythm - the machine takes my lead, not the other way round. Most important, my AHI has dropped below 2 and I'm getting at most 2 or 3 apneas per night. (It's also recording fewer hypopneas).

On the down side, the S9 can't distinguish the type of apnea, just lumping them together. (Though with so few, that doesn't really matter). It also gives a less detailed output in Sleepyhead (but quite adequate to monitor progress) and I really don't like the ResScan software.

So - Ford or Holden? Resmed or Philips? Despite its shortcomings, my vote goes to the Resmed.

DeepBreathing
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
11-09-2013 07:24 PM
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zonk Offline

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Machine: A10 AutoSet
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Sex: Male
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Post: #2
RE: Holden versus Ford
(11-09-2013 07:24 PM)DeepBreathing Wrote:  So - Ford or Holden? Resmed or Philips? Despite its shortcomings, my vote goes to the Resmed.
Neither, I,m driving small Honda Jazz ... it goes everywhere and cheap to run

Okay I have not used Philips Respironics System one machine to compare but looking with interest for any feedback
11-09-2013 07:53 PM
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cbramsey Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage FX
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Sex: Male
Location: NC, USA

Post: #3
RE: Holden versus Ford
I have used a PR System One APAP since November 2, 2011. It worked initially but over time has become less effective. Went to new Sleep Doc last week and he prescribed a ResMed S9 Autoset to see if it will work any better. Should receive it early next week.

As to the auto reference, I am presently driving a Ford Escape (known as the Ford Kuga) in other parts of the world. Bigwink

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
11-09-2013 09:15 PM
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DeepBreathing Offline
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Posts: 2,296
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Machine: Resmed S9 VPAP Adapt
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: Resmed H5i
CPAP Pressure: EPAP: 9 - 15 PS: 3 - 10
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post: #4
RE: Holden versus Ford
(11-09-2013 09:15 PM)cbramsey Wrote:  I have used a PR System One APAP since November 2, 2011. It worked initially but over time has become less effective.

Do you think it lost effectiveness due to a deterioration in the machine, or have there been physiological changes over that time?

DeepBreathing
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
11-09-2013 09:29 PM
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DrWho? Offline

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Machine: Philips Respironics/REMstar Pro C-Flex
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Swift FX
Humidifier: Philips Respionics
CPAP Pressure: 17
CPAP Software: Other Software

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Sex: Male
Location: Canberra Australia

Post: #5
RE: Holden versus Ford
Hi DeepBreathing, I've used both and am currently using a Philips Resironics REMstar Pro C=-Flex+

I found both good. The only complaint I have about the Philips is during the night I have to add water to the humidifier



I'm driving a Magna but would prefer a V12 Jaguar coup

I'm not a Doctor but a fan of The Doctor. any views,comments etc are my own
(This post was last modified: 11-10-2013 02:14 AM by DrWho?.)
11-10-2013 02:12 AM
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DeepBreathing Offline
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Posts: 2,296
Joined: Sep 2013

Machine: Resmed S9 VPAP Adapt
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: Resmed H5i
CPAP Pressure: EPAP: 9 - 15 PS: 3 - 10
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post: #6
RE: Holden versus Ford
(11-10-2013 02:12 AM)DrWho? Wrote:  The only complaint I have about the Philips is during the night I have to add water to the humidifier

I noticed the same thing. It was also a lot easier to spill water from the Philips tub due to the way the air path was configured. I suspect the Resmed tub is a heck of a lot more expensive to make, though.

(11-10-2013 02:12 AM)DrWho? Wrote:  would prefer a V12 Jaguar coup

Who wouldn't? Big Grin

DeepBreathing
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
11-10-2013 02:53 AM
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vsheline Offline

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Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F10 or SimPlus w/ 2Liners. MirageQuatro & Gecko gel pad
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 15 EPAP, PS 5-10
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Marfan Syndrome, chronic bradycardia, occasional Cheyne-Stokes Respiration

Sex: Male
Location: California, USA

Post: #7
RE: Holden versus Ford
(11-09-2013 07:24 PM)DeepBreathing Wrote:  After the BiPAP trial was up, it was time to choose a machine to purchase. The clinic don't actually recommend a particular brand, but they did indicate they have a lot more break-downs with the PS and repair times are excessive. Whether this was spin to push me to the product which gives them a higher margin, I don't know.

On the down side, the S9 can't distinguish the type of apnea, just lumping them together. (Though with so few, that doesn't really matter).

Hi DeepBreathing,

Thanks very much for the comparison of the two ASV machines.

I have the older S9 VPAP Adapt on which the Pressure Support auto-adjusts but EPAP is fixed (model# 36007), not like the PRS1 ASV machine and the new S9 VPAP Adapt (model# 36037) which can auto-adjust the EPAP as well as auto-adjust the Pressure Support.

I think the ResMed machine (model# 36037) is less adjustable and therefore more of a "One Size Fits Most" machine, but also simpler to use and less likely to have its settings messed up by clinician or user error.

ResMed VPAP Adapt Model 36037 is less adjustable than the PRS1 ASV machine. For example, on the ResMed VPAP Adapt the Minimum Pressure Support cannot be set higher than 6.

Also, on the ResMed ASV machine the doctor/user cannot adjust the following (and on the PRS1 ASV machine you can):

• BPM - This screen allows you to modify the Breaths Per Minute setting. You can choose between Off, Auto, or 4 through 30 in 1 BPM increments.
Note: This setting only displays if PS max is greater than zero.

• Ti - This screen allows you to modify the Inspiratory Time setting. You may adjust the setting from 0.5 to 3.0 seconds in 0.1 increments. This setting only displays if PS max is greater than zero and BPM is not set to Off or Auto.

• Rise time - Rise time is the time it takes for the device to change from the expiratory pressure setting to the inspiratory pressure setting. This screen allows you to adjust the rise time so you can find the desired setting. A setting of “0” is the fastest rise time, while “3” is the slowest. This is only available if Flex type is set to None and PS max is greater than zero.

Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment. The Advisory Member group provides advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff on matters concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies - not on matters concerning treatment for Sleep Apnea. I think it is now too late to change the name of the group but I think Voting Member group would perhaps have been a more descriptive name for the group.
(This post was last modified: 11-10-2013 04:14 AM by vsheline.)
11-10-2013 03:53 AM
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DeepBreathing Offline
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Machine: Resmed S9 VPAP Adapt
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: Resmed H5i
CPAP Pressure: EPAP: 9 - 15 PS: 3 - 10
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post: #8
RE: Holden versus Ford
Thanks Vaughn.

It looks like there's a lot more fine tuning you can do on the Philips machine. I can see that - if you know what you're doing - this could be really good for treating refractory central and complex apneas. As you say, there's also more potential to stuff things up.

DeepBreathing
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 11-10-2013 05:27 AM by DeepBreathing.)
11-10-2013 05:10 AM
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cbramsey Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Mirage FX
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CPAP Software: ResScan

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Sex: Male
Location: NC, USA

Post: #9
RE: Holden versus Ford
(11-09-2013 09:29 PM)DeepBreathing Wrote:  
(11-09-2013 09:15 PM)cbramsey Wrote:  I have used a PR System One APAP since November 2, 2011. It worked initially but over time has become less effective.

Do you think it lost effectiveness due to a deterioration in the machine, or have there been physiological changes over that time?

Not sure. That is a plausible explanation. There really hasn't been any physical changes during that time. My weight has been pretty steady (+ / - 15 lbs),

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
11-10-2013 08:20 AM
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archangle Offline
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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
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Post: #10
RE: Holden versus Ford
I haven't heard enough ASV users to have a specific comparison between S9 and PRS1 for that.

However, for CPAP and bilevel, I and quite a few others find the S9 machines seem "gentler" somehow. Users seem to like the S9 a little better.

However, some like the PRS1 better. Either manufacturer's machine has its own good and bad points.

I switched to S9, but s9 vs. PRS1 is roughly a toss up.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
11-12-2013 03:00 AM
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