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How important is an Oximeter?
#1
How important is an Oximeter?
Hi,


I have few questions about the importance of the Oximeter during CPAP session:
 
1.   Saturation level is a major part of the Apnea/Hypopnea definition. Nevertheless, we don’t have saturation data in most cases. So I'm wondering how we can discuss AHI values without it. I had once over night session with a CPAP integrated with a Oximeter, resulting AHI=2.5 while my average value and CPAP machines only is 10-15.
2.   I could not find a decent Oximeter, with recording capability, for reasonable price. Amazon is full of products with bad feedback on accuracy. Do we have in this forum a “consensus” product?
3.   I’m wondering why all the CPAP machines that I’m aware of are lacking this capability. Did I miss something?
 
Thanks,
Arik
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#2
RE: How important is an Oximeter?
Oximetry does nothing to change AHI, the differences between machines you encountered was either due to differences in settings, the effectiveness of the software, sensitivity to event triggers, or simply you had a "good" night.
Unless a patient has serious issues with desaturation during the sleep study, it is generally assumed that treatment and the accompanying reduction in AHI will improve saturation on its own.

People are resistant enough to CPAP in general, often not tolerating the most unobtrusive of masks.
Adding a finger probe is a big increase in complexity and discomfort. I tolerate most masks well and have never ripped one from my face, but I would not tolerate a finger probe or glove for more than a single night or series of nights for a study.
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#3
RE: How important is an Oximeter?
Hi Arik,
I often wondered why the don't have this as an extra option so uou can plug one into the machine. Only problem I could see is the cable might get caught up when you turn in your sleep.
I suppose they cloud do a Bluetooth option. However, unless they made it a plug in option to the machine I.e. the board plugged into the machine as an extra, then it sent the data via Bluetooth as putting this into every machine would cost the manufacturer a lot over time. However, saying this, a plug in board with a clip for your finger might mean you cloud have the device strapped to your arm and it could download data in sinc with the rest of your data. Normally, if your treatment is good so will your blood saturation. However, some like to keep an eye on this and this means buying a stand alone device and as you point out you can have one on each hand from two suppliers and they will not always read the same as you might expect. There may be a few reasons why, but you would expect them to be around the same.
This might be a good idea to pass on the the manufacturers. There was a thread on new ideas for adding new things to machines that people thought might be a good idea. It might be worth adding this to it, but I am on a phone and I can't search for it. If it is still being monitored?
Might also be worth passing this idea onto Resmed and Resperonics as something people might like as an extra.
I just don't know how big the demand would be and I think this would be their problem as well.
Sorry, I might not have answered your question as such.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<
I am NOT a doctor.  I try to help, but do not take what I say as medical advice.

I am just a long term user of c.p.a.p. and therefore I have some experience in using these machines and equipment.

However, I am NOT an expert, so advice given should be taken as given in good faith only and NOT medical advice.

Every journey, however large or small starts with the first step.   Coffee
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#4
RE: How important is an Oximeter?
Few spelling mistakes, but on a phone it is difficult to fix them.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<
I am NOT a doctor.  I try to help, but do not take what I say as medical advice.

I am just a long term user of c.p.a.p. and therefore I have some experience in using these machines and equipment.

However, I am NOT an expert, so advice given should be taken as given in good faith only and NOT medical advice.

Every journey, however large or small starts with the first step.   Coffee
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#5
RE: How important is an Oximeter?
(01-10-2019, 08:29 AM)Sleep2Snore Wrote: I often wondered why the don't have this as an extra option so uou can plug one into the machine.

They do have it. The port for it is there on, for instance, the Airsense 10 and the Dreamstation. Don't know about the Weinmann/Lowenstein machines, so this is no help to Arik.

The problem is that the compatible oximeters are very, very expensive (many hundreds of dollars) because the manufacturers assume that clinics, not patients, are the customers for them. That's one reason we have the Contec CMS50 series ... but those can't be used with the oximeter connections on the CPAP machines. Sad

As with any sophisticated electronics item, you can have either low price or all the features, but not both.

P.S. About the approved Dreamstation pulse ox, just for instance:
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...#pid279830
"I wanted to be a Boy Scout, but I had all the wrong qualities.  They were looking for kids who were trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.  Whereas I tended to be devious, fickle, obstructive, hostile, rude, mean, defiant, glum, extravagant, cowardly, dirty, and sacrilegious."  (George Carlin)
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#6
RE: How important is an Oximeter?
The main reason there isn't a O2 monitor is there's no reason for it. The CPAP machines are designed to remove obstructive apneas. The O2 level doesn't have a direct bearing on how the machine operates. In most cases it would be an added cost for something not required. There is add on O2 monitors offered by Resmed but it'll cost you a lot. Most people who what to monitor their O2 on their own end up buying something like the Contec CMS-50F that run around $80.
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#7
RE: How important is an Oximeter?
I have recommended them to users whose desats during a diagnostic sleep study ran over 6 hours, almost the entire duration of the sleep study as compared to the 8 minutes required by Medicare to qualify for Oxygen supplementation. Must most user would not need one.

Fred
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#8
RE: How important is an Oximeter?
I'm sure this is in other discussion threads here about oximeters, but just in case it's any help to anyone at the moment, the situation with the Air10 (I looked it up briefly, just from curiosity) is almost exactly the same as with the Dreamstation except possibly for one proprietary component, and I don't know whether that differs between the two manufacturers. (Anybody know?) That's the adapter cable to plug in to the machine, sold by Philips and Resmed, costing somewhere around $100 (that order of magnitude, anyway). Then you take your Nonin Xpod, which you have bought for $600 or whatever, and connect it to the adapter. From that point on, oximetry numbers are written to the SD card along with the other sleep data, and presumably they are read by Sleepyhead or Resscan or Encore, all synched up time-wise and everything.

It'd be nice if that were possible with an $80 Contec unit, but I guess we can't have everything.

If it's any consolation, of course the more expensive instrument gets you much better accuracy & features & stuff. And bragging rights.
"I wanted to be a Boy Scout, but I had all the wrong qualities.  They were looking for kids who were trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.  Whereas I tended to be devious, fickle, obstructive, hostile, rude, mean, defiant, glum, extravagant, cowardly, dirty, and sacrilegious."  (George Carlin)
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#9
RE: How important is an Oximeter?
(01-10-2019, 08:29 AM)Sleep2Snore Wrote: thought might be a good idea.  It might be worth adding this to it, but I am on a phone and I can't search for it.  If it is still being monitored?
Might also be worth passing this idea onto Resmed and Resperonics as something people might like as an extra.
I just don't know how big the demand would be and I think this would be their problem as well.
Sorry, I might not have answered your question as such.

Resmed has an excellent wired PulseOxymeter that is fully integrated into their machines and data recording. The only issue with it is that is is priced at hospital prices. It's a $900 accessory.

And there is a Chinese knock off of the Resmed units that comes with a bluetooth, wrist and thumb worn pulse oxymeter that also records movement. So manufacturers are aware of the utility of offering pulse oxymetry. Resmed just hasn't offered it at consumer prices yet, and probably never will because Resmed tries to hide your data from you. Their MyAir App is just a compliance app that doesn't even tell you whether you are getting obstructive apneas or central apneas. As far as Resmed is concerned, you are not the customer. Your insurance company and medical equipment providers are. So, until Resmed decides that you should be able to view your own data and that you are the customer, I don't see them offering a consumer priced pulse ox accessory.
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#10
RE: How important is an Oximeter?
(01-10-2019, 02:54 PM)Fats Drywaller Wrote: ... except possibly for one proprietary component, and I don't know whether that differs between the two manufacturers.  (Anybody know?)  That's the adapter cable to plug in to the machine, sold by Philips and Resmed, costing somewhere around $100 (that order of magnitude, anyway).

Answering my own question: Never mind! It's a Resmed-only Connector Conspiracy again, similar to the situation with the power cable.
"I wanted to be a Boy Scout, but I had all the wrong qualities.  They were looking for kids who were trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.  Whereas I tended to be devious, fickle, obstructive, hostile, rude, mean, defiant, glum, extravagant, cowardly, dirty, and sacrilegious."  (George Carlin)
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