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How important is it to have the latest firmware version?
#31
Well, I went to pick up my new S9 today, and after assuring me that it was indeed the 905 version......I showed her the menu that displays the software version, and it was 904. She was shocked, and embarrased as her supplier assured her it was 905 as I had requested. I had also requested a dc cable for the S9 for travelling and camping, and they had sent the S8 version instead. So after some deliberation and a phone call to the regional rep. they decided to send me all of the correct equipment early next week. As I already have a CPAP machine I figured that I could live another few days without it. The DME said that the REP said that there were significant differences between 903 and 904, but was unsure about the changes between 904 and 905. he thought that the changes were minor. That being said I told the DME that without the release notes I am no longer certain what is significant from what is not. Therefore just get me the latest, and she immediately agreeed.
According to the DME, I am the first client to ever request a specific version of firmware, and it has been a learning experience for her. She wasn't angry, just interested.
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#32
I personally think that the reason CPAP manufacturers don't provide an easily upgradeable firmware solution is because that route provides another doorway into the inner workings of the firmware itself (and thus, possibly providing a much easier way for competitors or advanced users to hack their way into the firmware and change it, or reverse-engineer it to discover the proprietary CPAP algorithms). The more doorways you open for manipulating the code, the more code manipulation (and code theft) will happen. If that info and ability to stick a firmware upgrade onto an SD card is given to DMEs, the end-users (we) are going to get that "secret" upgrade code also, eventually. Just look what happened to the Setup Manuals for "Clinician Use Only".

I think it's simply an attempt by CPAP manufacturers to control their intellectual property.
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#33
(04-20-2012, 08:53 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote: I think it's simply an attempt by CPAP manufacturers to control their intellectual property.

You can't blame them for that. But there are ways to consider the end-user and protect themselves which they are not utilizing, IMO. But - easy to say when it isn't my property! Oh well - I apparently missed out on the 904 "major" upgrade, if that individual knew what they were talking about.
Breathing keeps you alive. And PAP helps keep you breathing!
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#34
(04-20-2012, 08:53 PM)SuperSleeper Wrote: I personally think that the reason CPAP manufacturers don't provide an easily upgradeable firmware solution is because that route provides another doorway into the inner workings of the firmware itself (and thus, possibly providing a much easier way for competitors or advanced users to hack their way into the firmware and change it, or reverse-engineer it to discover the proprietary CPAP algorithms). The more doorways you open for manipulating the code, the more code manipulation (and code theft) will happen. If that info and ability to stick a firmware upgrade onto an SD card is given to DMEs, the end-users (we) are going to get that "secret" upgrade code also, eventually. Just look what happened to the Setup Manuals for "Clinician Use Only".

I think it's simply an attempt by CPAP manufacturers to control their intellectual property.
Maybe so, but most electronic consumer goods have upgradeable firmware ( BD players, cameras, etc.) They do not seem to worry about code theft or manipulations. But, this is medical equipment and perhaps there is duty of care to a different standard. Barring access to firmware may not be due to industrial secrecy! We really do not know what the intentions are.

However, I still doubt that firmware upgrades make significant differences to treatment. (It is also not like comparing a 2006 and 2012 Chey. It is more like comparing a 2012 Chevy to one from the same year but having sat on the lot for 3 to 6 months!)
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#35
(04-21-2012, 01:03 AM)HeadGear Wrote: ... (It is also not like comparing a 2006 and 2012 Chey. It is more like comparing a 2012 Chevy to one from the same year but having sat on the lot for 3 to 6 months!)

Absolutely not, IMO. The same year car would have no - repeat no - differences in style or function or anything else. It would be the SAME car, just older. If the firmware made ANY difference - be it in type of data saved, the ability to report data in a different format, a different function algorythm, or equipment functionality, that would not be the case with cpap machines. And since SOME S9 Autosets function with SD cards only, and SOME with both SD and SDHC cards, we know that SOME changes have been made. Thus the same year car analogy must fail, since it would NOT be the simply an older cpap - it would be different. Vehicle manufacturers don't make changes to their models after 3 - 6 months, barring recalls, and then, not in that time frame. That would be like an early in the year model running on gasoline alone, but later in the year it would run on both on diesel and gasoline.


Breathing keeps you alive. And PAP helps keep you breathing!
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#36
BTW the 904 machine had a standard SD card in it not an SDHC.

As far as an analogy of this purchase I figure it's like ordering a laptop with Windows 7 with an updated Service pack 2. and you receive one with Windows 7. but with no service pack, and for some reason you can't upgrade. You are forever stuck with an operating system that mostly works. In fact you may never access those functions that are buggy, but you'll never know until something goes wrong or worse, you access those buggy functions that you hoped were working and are not. Without release notes, you'll forever wonder. Incidentally, my DME said that the ResMed rep was going to find out what the differences were between 904 and 905. Hopefully they'll share that with me and I'll pass it along.
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#37
(04-21-2012, 08:04 AM)EyesWideOpen Wrote: BTW the 904 machine had a standard SD card in it not an SDHC.

As far as an analogy of this purchase I figure it's like ordering a laptop with Windows 7 with an updated Service pack 2. and you receive one with Windows 7. but with no service pack, and for some reason you can't upgrade. You are forever stuck with an operating system that mostly works. In fact you may never access those functions that are buggy, but you'll never know until something goes wrong or worse, you access those buggy functions that you hoped were working and are not. Without release notes, you'll forever wonder. Incidentally, my DME said that the ResMed rep was going to find out what the differences were between 904 and 905. Hopefully they'll share that with me and I'll pass it along.

The SD card use will continue until ResMed runs out. I was told they had a considerable supply on hand. I am confident that yours will also use the SDHC, which you will possibly need if your card goes south, or you want a spare. Each day it gets harder to find a straight SD card.

I like your analogy better than mine. And, thank you, I would very much like to know what you learn, if anything, about the firmware update from 904 to 905.
Breathing keeps you alive. And PAP helps keep you breathing!
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#38
(04-21-2012, 07:22 AM)JumpStart Wrote:
(04-21-2012, 01:03 AM)HeadGear Wrote: ... (It is also not like comparing a 2006 and 2012 Chey. It is more like comparing a 2012 Chevy to one from the same year but having sat on the lot for 3 to 6 months!)

Absolutely not, IMO. The same year car would have no - repeat no - differences in style or function or anything else. It would be the SAME car, just older. If the firmware made ANY difference - be it in type of data saved, the ability to report data in a different format, a different function algorythm, or equipment functionality, that would not be the case with cpap machines. And since SOME S9 Autosets function with SD cards only, and SOME with both SD and SDHC cards, we know that SOME changes have been made. Thus the same year car analogy must fail, since it would NOT be the simply an older cpap - it would be different. Vehicle manufacturers don't make changes to their models after 3 - 6 months, barring recalls, and then, not in that time frame. That would be like an early in the year model running on gasoline alone, but later in the year it would run on both on diesel and gasoline.
Do you really know that auto manufacturers and their suppliers make no changes in hardware and firmware in a model year? Sometimes there is more than one parts supplier for an item, then are the items identical? Firmware can change over the model year and how would you know about that? A recall will only happen if there is a certain threshold.

BTW, my S9 is over a year in use now and will accept both SD and SDHC cards! It is an early version, 602 - not even a 900 series!

Bottom line, in keeping with the original question, and it is a good question: I do not see that the firmware variants on a CPAP are an issue we need to content with in our pursuit of optimal treatment outcomes. (It is not important!) For that matter, the differences between machines from different manufactures are also not that important to treatment outcome. Seriously, should we be anxious and advocate switching machines every 3 months because of firmware upgrades or when new models come out from the different manufacturers - lest we not receive optimal treatment?
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#39
(04-21-2012, 01:47 PM)HeadGear Wrote: BTW, my S9 is over a year in use now and will accept both SD and SDHC cards! It is an early version, 602 - not even a 900 series!

Irrelevant. It was a firmware change, since earlier models did not support an SDHC, and simply supports my position.

(04-21-2012, 01:47 PM)HeadGear Wrote: Bottom line, in keeping with the original question, and it is a good question: I do not see that the firmware variants on a CPAP are an issue we need to content with in our pursuit of optimal treatment outcomes. (It is not important!) For that matter, the differences between machines from different manufactures are also not that important to treatment outcome. Seriously, should we be anxious and advocate switching machines every 3 months because of firmware upgrades or when new models come out from the different manufacturers - lest we not receive optimal treatment?

Switching every 3 months? Where did that come from? None of this discussion would be as relevant if that were even remotely possible. As most users seem to recognize, 5 years is the significant figure when talking about xpap devices and their related and unchangeable firmware. You are certainly entitled to believe that getting an older version of anything, for the same price as that of a newer model, is in your best interests - or that the newer, same priced product is of little import in your xpap treatment. Earlier models were not data compliant, which I gather would be irrelevant to you as well. Most people, I suspect, do not believe in that policy, be it xpap or otherwise. But then, I suppose, some would strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. To each their own. I, for one, believe in getting what I am paying for in an arms length transaction, and, as regards those seeking help on this forum, believe it is in their best interest to recommend how they might do so also. If all you are interested in is a machine that blows air, regardless of manufacturer, or regardless of features, go for it. That is certainly your right. I will stick to my choice, and my advice, and you can have yours. I think we have both made our positions clear, and neither is likely to change their opinion. As I said, different strokes for different folks.
Breathing keeps you alive. And PAP helps keep you breathing!
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#40
(04-13-2012, 11:20 PM)Surly Wrote: According to the link Paula02 posted previously in this thread my S9 has firmware version 905 (SW FX474-905).

The following are the FW versions from my S9-VPAP-Auto I got from Apria on Jan 22, 2012, do I need to upgrade my VPAP? If Yes, how do I do that?

SW SX474-0903
BID SX525-0300
VID 9
RID 100
HID SX496-0211
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