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How much REM minimum is needed on a sleep study?
#11
"Just because you're breathing doesn't mean everything is OK."

It's what we call a "necessary, but not sufficient" condition! Smile
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#12
I had 14.0 minutes of REM in my sleep study, 0 minutes N3 sleep, and a 44% sleep efficiency, and that was enough (30 AHI during the brief REM).
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#13
Alzheimers and Dementia have been ruled out. I have been denied another sleep study on the public system they say that my sleep study was sufficient. I think at this stage there is nothing more I can do.
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#14
(11-28-2015, 01:56 PM)zonk Wrote:
(11-28-2015, 01:45 PM)napnaptime Wrote: How much REM minimum is needed on a sleep study for a solid assessment? Would two hours be enough?
2 hours plenty, but in my opinion its "neither here or there' since you've an AutoSet
The AutoSet mode adjust pressure to suit your personal breathing needs throughout the night

I agree with Zonk: I had tow sleep studies with no REM sleep in either. I slept 107 min in the first one an 118 in the second one.
The experience was horrible. The sleep center wanted to do a third. Fortunately my Dr. talked to my insurance co and told them he had the info he needed with 225 min of sleep combined between the two tests. The combined AHI for those 25 minutes was 14. I did not have a titration done in either of the studies due to lack of sleep time. The insurance rep told me I didn't need a titration one for the APAP script.
2004-Bon Jovi
it'll take more than a doctor to prescribe a remedy

Observations and recommendations communicated here are the perceptions of the writer and should not be misconstrued as medical advice.
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#15
(11-28-2015, 02:09 PM)kaiasgram Wrote: You don't need two hours of REM. You don't need any REM. You need two hours of sleep.

Sleep apnea can interfere with REM sleep to the point where the person doesn't even get any significant REM phase sleep. We've seen this on some sleep study reports. One can have a valid sleep study and never have entered REM during the study.

This was me. My sleep Doc was all "I'm so sorry sweetie, but you never went where you were supposed to....." (I work with her in a different office, so she can get away with "sweetie")
"I am not a Doctor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.Coffee
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#16
(11-30-2015, 05:58 PM)napnaptime Wrote: Alzheimers and Dementia have been ruled out. I have been denied another sleep study on the public system they say that my sleep study was sufficient. I think at this stage there is nothing more I can do.

An evaluation by a neurocognitive psychologist might be helpful. That would be more about evaluating the problems you are having and giving them their correct name than anything else.

It wouldn't be impossible for a diagnosis to come out of it, but it might just amount to a good description of your problems. That's actually very important. Whenever you're talking about cognitive/memory issues, the language gets fuzzy unless a proper evaluation is done.

(If that's what you had done in the psychological evaluation you mentioned, then disregard.)

Another thing I'd wonder about is if you are getting REM sleep now. I don't know of a good way to figure that out at home. Maybe others will have some ideas for you.

Do you have a pulse oximeter to use to measure oxygen saturation and heart rate while you are sleeping? You could possibly learn a lot from that.

I hope that you're able to find the reason for your problem. (Or that it goes away - that would be even better.)
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#17
(11-28-2015, 02:09 PM)kaiasgram Wrote: You don't need two hours of REM. You don't need any REM. You need two hours of sleep.

Sleep apnea can interfere with REM sleep to the point where the person doesn't even get any significant REM phase sleep. We've seen this on some sleep study reports. One can have a valid sleep study and never have entered REM during the study.

The results of my split study (diagnostics and CPAP) resulted in NO REM in Diagnostic and only 21 minutes in therapy portion.
It does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop. --Confucius
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#18
My last sleep study also states "REM sleep was absent", though it did say "No supine REM sleep was present in this study to aid final determination of optimal pressure."
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#19
I have never had N3 or REM in any sleep study. The last one I only slept for 30 minutes total and when the Doctor commented about it I said 'Well yes that is kind of my problem, I am not sleeping!"

They need to get enough test results to feel comfortable filling out the medical necessity form to submit to insurance. There is no set rule for that, that I know of.

Okay you use sleephead, post some plots and what your settings are and see if someone here can provide you with some suggestions.
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#20
I'd say how much time you need asleep has more to do with your levels of AHI. Wasn't happy either time I went in, I left more tired than I started out and didn't sleep much at all. First time they said I had enough and I fell a few tenths below the standard for a machine.

2nd time I slept fairly well for 3 1/2 hours then woke up, wide awake. Sent me home saying I fell short of qualifying again. Showed me a couple of masks then said it wasn't worth going through a titration trial. Then a few days later I get a call saying I qualified..not exactly something that promotes trust in the system of diagnosis!

I have a pretty good understanding of the data taken and sleep patterns. What I don't understand is how they think they can get anything like normal data--how you sleep when at home--when you are in a strange place with wires stuck to you all over your body.

If like me you have a spouse who you trust knows you have enough of an issue to matter, I suggest ignoring the pre-sleep study advice. Try to avoid getting a good night of sleep the day before, and take a few shots or have a few beers right before you go to bed.
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