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How to overcome if you breath with mouth and nose same time when wear mask
#1
How to overcome if you breath with mouth and nose same time when wear mask
Hi All the experienced user, my mom has big problem to use cpap, mainly said nose and mouth breath at the same time inside the mask when she almost fall into sleep make her uncomfortable and keep her awakening, what is your advice. I have took her to clinic and set min to max from 5-10, last three days AHI keep high, i will take her back check again in two weeks. I don't know what doctor can help solve this problem, please what would you suggest. Thank you so much
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#2
RE: How to overcome if you breath with mouth and nose same time when wear mask
Have you taken your mom to an ENT for evaluation?  I have not heard of breathing through nose and mouth at same time.  Not even sure that’s possible.  Mabye she means she alternates breathing between nose and mouth, which sounds like she can’t get enough air.

Are you using SleepyHead?  If so, post a screenshot of the daily page here.  There are instructions in my signature line.  

The minimum setting of 5cm for a full face mask seems low.  She may be feeling “air starved” and that alone could be what’s waking her.  We can tell a lot by looking at her data.
OpalRose
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.  ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA.  INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#3
RE: How to overcome if you breath with mouth and nose same time when wear mask
(04-08-2018, 10:19 AM)OpalRose Wrote: Have you taken your mom to an ENT for evaluation?  I have not heard of breathing through nose and mouth at same time.  Not even sure that’s possible.  Mabye she means she alternates breathing between nose and mouth, which sounds like she can’t get enough air.

Are you using [url=http://OSCAR Page ----> CLICK HERE ./]SleepyHead[/url]?  If so, post a screenshot of the daily page here.  There are instructions in my signature line.  

The minimum setting of 5cm for a full face mask seems low.  She may be feeling “air starved” and that alone could be what’s waking her.  We can tell a lot by looking at her data.

thanks, what is ENT. 
Yes i don't how it is possible, but i don't know how to understand what she described. She was awake with nose breath, then while almost fall in sleep with mouth open, that' where problem and she said air mixed inside mask woke her up pluse she has insomnia issue. 

It was auto set before between 4-20, then doctor change to 5-10 when i brought her reports. The attachments have 5 files, 20180408 of three are the ones after the change made to 5-10. 

Here is my full thread with similar topic.

http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...mask-usage

thank you so much.
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#4
RE: How to overcome if you breath with mouth and nose same time when wear mask
Sorry, an ENT is an Ear, Nose and Throat specialist.
OpalRose
Apnea Board Administrator
http://www.ApneaBoard.com

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OSCAR Chart Organization
OSCAR - The Guide
Soft Cervical Collar
Optimizing therapy





INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.  ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA.  INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#5
RE: How to overcome if you breath with mouth and nose same time when wear mask
I would have mom's settings at 8.0 to 20.0 because the 10 maximum pressure is not sufficient to treat the obstructive apnea. I would also look for a soft cervical collar to prevent positional apnea that is the likely culprit with the clusters of obstructive apnea. My guess is that she is tucking her chin to her chest, or her pillow puts her in that position, and she cannot breath when the airway is closed off by that position. A soft cervical collar is made of foam and ranges form 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 inches in height and should be sized to comfortably be worn (an inch or two greater than her neck circumference). By keeping the airway straight, she will not have the clusters of OA, and the pressure range will probably settle in between 8 and 14 cm.

Simultaneously breathing nasally and orally is not a big trick, and many people do it. I would not worry too much about that since the leak rates are acceptable.
Sleeprider
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#6
RE: How to overcome if you breath with mouth and nose same time when wear mask
What was the reason the doctor changed the max pressure from 20 down to 10? Although I’m not big on leaving pressure wide open like a 5 to 20, it’s clear that she needs to be higher than 10 max as she’s bumping up against that pressure most of the night, which makes it hard for the machine to treat the obstructives.

Also the minimum pressure is set too low. If her doctor is unable to adjust properly, then you may need to take control and do it yourself. Order the Clinicians manual if you don’t already have it. Link at top of page.

Raise the minimum pressure to be more in line with her median pressure on the SleepyHead graphs, and open up the max pressure at least 14 or 15. That should help clear up the Obstructives.

Good luck.
OpalRose
Apnea Board Administrator
http://www.ApneaBoard.com

_______________________
OSCAR Chart Organization
OSCAR - The Guide
Soft Cervical Collar
Optimizing therapy





INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.  ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA.  INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#7
RE: How to overcome if you breath with mouth and nose same time when wear mask
I gave you suggested settings in the other thread. 10 cm max is clearly too low and causing most of the problems. Do you have a SleepyHead chart that you could post for the time when the machine was set at 5 min and 20 max? That would be informative.

On your question, with a full face mask it should not matter whether she breaths through the nose or the mouth. That is the main reason for using a full face mask.
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#8
RE: How to overcome if you breath with mouth and nose same time when wear mask
How large is your mother?

Is it possible she is small enough that the doctor is using a pediatric type setting? And, if so, does this change the expert recommendations for the lower setting?

It would be best to keep the posts and especially the charts in one thread so that the knowledgeable members have all of the information when advising you.

Best wishes for your mother, and for you too. I know it can be difficult to be in your position as helper/caretaker.

(by the way, breathing through the mouth and nose simultaneously is not difficult or unusual)
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#9
RE: How to overcome if you breath with mouth and nose same time when wear mask
(04-08-2018, 11:51 AM)Ron AKA Wrote: I gave you suggested settings in the other thread. 10 cm max is clearly too low and causing most of the problems. Do you have a SleepyHead chart that you could post for the time when the machine was set at 5 min and 20 max? That would be informative.

On your question, with a full face mask it should not matter whether she breaths through the nose or the mouth. That is the main reason for using a full face mask.


Agree, it doesn't matter how she's breathing with the full face mask. What's notable is that she is using a full face mask at a minimum setting of 5cm which could cause her to feel like she is starved for air.
OpalRose
Apnea Board Administrator
http://www.ApneaBoard.com

_______________________
OSCAR Chart Organization
OSCAR - The Guide
Soft Cervical Collar
Optimizing therapy





INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE.  ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA.  INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#10
RE: How to overcome if you breath with mouth and nose same time when wear mask
Quote:What's notable is that she is using a full face mask at a minimum setting of 5cm which could cause her to feel like she is starved for air.

Yes, it would also be helpful to have a better description of how or what she is experiencing when she says she is "uncomfortable."

The most common thing we hear is being starved for air, so that is what we'll usually assume when we see someone on a minimum setting of 4 or 5.

But if she is as petite as I suspect she is, being starved for air may not be her problem.
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