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How to stop FOT arousals?
RE: How to stop FOT arousals?
What makes me say and think MSE may disappoint a bit? You answered it yourself, at least in one aspect. You have to pair it with another surgery and PAP. Certainly do what you feel is needed, I'm not attempting to stop or dissuade you.

Hopefully you're not too offended, I tend to offend all at one point or another. Probably because I'm president of the local EOO club. For those unaware, this is equal opportunity offender.

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RE: How to stop FOT arousals?
(06-29-2021, 12:10 AM)Geer1 Wrote: Your exhalation is long because you either have a central or restrictive breathing issue. Your nasal congestion and small airways have me leaning towards restrictive although the decrease to 3 PS and some of the results in your previous thread have been supportive of a central nature to at least some extent. Good old UARS, never easy to diagnose or treat because imo the restrictive breathing is only part of the issue.

Like Sleeprider I noticed your low TV/MV but am not yet sure of the clinical relevance. Your sleep study data didn't indicate significant oxygen desats so I wasnt sure if the low ventilation is an issue. I thought maybe you are just a small thin guy and with the restricted airways don't need/use much air. Low ventilation and oxygen levels could be causing the symptoms you mention although your sleep study didn't indicate that as being an issue. You have assumed your symptoms are caused by RERAs and UARS but that is not necessarily the case and you need to be careful about drawing those conclusions especially off of home sleep studies using watchpat as the main diagnosis. You did mention how you felt you had trouble breathing out against CPAP and moved to bilevel because of it, that could support theory you don't breath out against pressure well and perhaps your ventilation numbers are actually lower on PAP then during sleep study. About the only way to get an idea would be to use a recording oximeter but you would have to buy one if you wanted to test that out. 

Right now I would say lets get at one, maybe two more nights at 13/10 then we will try 15/10 to see the differences that makes on I:E and ventilation numbers and we will go from there.

While waiting I would be curious to know if you have any other symptoms that are unexplainable. Any digestive symptoms? Skin issues like eczema etc? Lots of these commonly occur in tandem with UARS.

Yes, I am a young thin guy. My main symptoms are severe brain fog, fatigue, daytime exhaustion, cognitive impairment, chronic insomnia, feelings of nervousness/anxiety, and derealization (it feels like I am quite literally living my life inside of a fog). But I have other symptoms like stomach indigestion, muscle twitches/spasms and cramps, sometimes headaches, nausea, and orthostatic problems (lightheadedness). 

I first started having problems ~7 years ago and my symptoms were progressive. Right now I am completely disabled by this problem and not able to work or go to school because of the severity of my symptoms.
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RE: How to stop FOT arousals?
That is what I figured.

Frankly I think your UARS is mostly a symptom exaggerated by small airways. You have full body symptoms the same as myself and others supportive of some other underlying health issue.

You mentioned having significant other testing etc and not finding any answers hence why like many others you think/hope your UARS diagnosis is the cause. You may be right and you definitely need to treat/improve it whether it is the cause or a symptom because doing so will give relief.

You and I have some common symptoms (congestion, indigestion, twitches, UARS etc). In my personal experience and research I have come to believe that these kind of symptoms are commonly caused by digestive issues and brought on or at least worsened by food intolerances. As mentioned early in the thread dairy was my big issue that was making my health worse and worse, finding this and removing it from my diet helped substantially although I still am not fully recovered and am trying to figure out how to get the final improvement.

If you are willing to try other things my recommendation is to try a low allergen (similar to paleo) elimination diet where you remove dairy, gluten, soy, nuts etc. Remove as many as you can while not restricting your diet too much, try and focus on fresh vegetables, fruit and meats and simple carbs like rice and potatoes. Try doing so for 4-8 weeks, the changes may be slow and barely noticeable but at the end of elimination diet you reintroduce foods one at a time and check for any worsening/reoccurrence of symptoms which will probably be the most noticeable on your digestion and congestion. Start with the main allergies and then if you find no or minimal improvement try less common allergic foods like eggs, fish etc. Another one you can try is the low fodmap diet (the one that got me started on this journey) which removes complex carbs your body can't digest and rely on bacteria for, bacteria which can become imbalanced and cause a number of symptoms (I tested positive for SIBO which is an overgrowth of bacteria and treating it has helped a couple times now).

My opinion is that this stuff messes a guy up in multiple ways because digestion affects not only nutrients but also hormones, neurotransmitters and immune system all of which are mainly minorly effected and not easily testable for dysfunction. Our digestive systems are very complex and tests for most of these issues related to it are controversial or non existent but the issues they create can be very hard to live with. I am not sure if you have other family members with digestive, allergy or autoimmune diseases like I do but if so that is another sign you could have genetic predisposition to these issues.

Anyways that is just my opinion and an option to try as it sounds like myself you are running low on options and haven't yet found the relief you are looking for. Diet/digestive treatments changed my life significantly so I have become a proponent for others to at least try them.
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RE: How to stop FOT arousals?
Not sure anyone said this as I haven't read the entire thread.

Quote:Afrin (1-2x a week to avoid rebound congestion)

Bad.  Get off the Afrin.  I causes insomnia and a host of other issues with prolonged use.  Makes sure you check other products to make sure they dont have Oxymetazoline hydrochloride in the.  Dont just switch to another nasal spray thinking it is not afrin.

You shouldn't use Oxymetazoline hydrochloride more than 3 days.  Lat time I checked it states it right on the box.  It's not a long term solution.  If you are using Afrin as a crutch you have another issue.  Please go see an Allergist and or an ENT.  You should not need Afrin at all ever.

I will add quite a few of you symptoms are side effects of Afrin use:

 My main symptoms are severe brain fog, fatigue, daytime exhaustion, cognitive impairment, chronic insomnia, feelings of nervousness/anxiety, and derealization (it feels like I am quite literally living my life inside of a fog). But I have other symptoms like stomach indigestion, muscle twitches/spasms and cramps, sometimes headaches, nausea, and orthostatic problems (lightheadedness)

Severe brain fog, fatigue, daytime exhaustion, cognitive impairment,  These are also related due to the lack of sleep and insomnia being compounded by afrin use.

Side effects requiring immediate medical attention
Along with its needed effects, oxymetazoline nasal (the active ingredient contained in Afrin) may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.
Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur while taking oxymetazoline nasal:
  • Blurred vision
  • fast, irregular, or pounding heartbeat
  • headachedizziness, drowsiness, or lightheadedness
  • high blood pressure
  • increase in runny or stuffy nose
  • nervousness
  • trembling
  • trouble in sleeping
  • weakness

Go google Afrin addiction.
Thank you,
Brent aka Factor

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My untreated AHI was 87.  You can do it hang in there.
"You can if you will"   Jerry Kramer

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