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Humidifier (An Important Question)
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Humidifier (An Imortant Question)
(08-15-2012 02:10 AM)Podd Wrote:  My sleep clinic recommended I use water that had been boiled (i.e. Kettle water) to reduce the limescale problem?

Really!? That's absurd. Your limescale problem is caused by mineral deposits in your water. Boiling the water will only increase the concentration of these deposits, making the problem worse.

Boiling is good for for removal of bacteria. The folks at your sleep clinic are obviously confused.

By far the most economical route for you is to buy distilled water at your local grocery store or Wally mart.

And by the way, none of those mineral deposits in the water are going to pass through the hose and enter your body. They remain in the tank. The only way to get them into your body is to drink the water. And they are a harmless bother. Nothing more.

I have a water softener and a RO filter, but if I didn't I would just buy the distilled water in the gallon jugs.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-15-2012 01:00 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Machine: ResMed AirCurve10 VAuto
Mask Type: Full face mask
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CPAP Pressure: MaxI 13.6 | MinE 5.2 | PS 4.4
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

Sex: Male
Location: Houston, Texas

Post: #12
RE: Humidifier (An Imortant Question)
(08-15-2012 10:26 AM)PaulaO2 Wrote:  Also, keep in mind this is my opinion based on reading, my common sense, and other educational stuff I have gleaned over the years.

And the fact that your water is not as hard as the tap water in other places. Some water is so hard it stinks. I wouldn't even drink it because of the foul odor.

Sleepster
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-15-2012 01:04 PM
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Podd Offline

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Post: #13
RE: Humidifier (An Imortant Question)
Very good article on the Fisher and Paykel site regarding the relative size of Bacteria and Virus's and water droplets, seems we are safe!
08-15-2012 01:20 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Humidifier (An Imortant Question)
I think if the water is drinkable, it is safe to use in a humidifier. If it is so hard it stinks, that's a came with a different straw!

It is why I love my spring and am glad I do not have a well.

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Breathe deeply and count to zen.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-15-2012 01:38 PM
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Podd Offline

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Post: #15
RE: Humidifier (An Imortant Question)
Mmmm, I used to do a lot of 'Home Brewing' Wines were perfect but Beer never came out any good due to Lime in-suspension in the water (I believe this is called soluble Lime) that is until I boiled the water first, then let it cool overnight, I recall 'Most' of the soluble Lime then settles at the bottom, it was a simple matter to decant the water without disturbing the sediment.
I think there is some logic in taking water from a kettle and letting it cool overnight, then using it in the Humidifier.
The Beer came out good by the way!
08-15-2012 02:52 PM
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zonk Offline

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Post: #16
RE: Humidifier (An Imortant Question)
(08-15-2012 01:20 PM)Podd Wrote:  Very good article on the Fisher and Paykel site regarding the relative size of Bacteria and Virus's and water droplets, seems we are safe!
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...fier-to-me
_______________________________________________________________

I use water straight from the tap and have no problem. Our town water has been laboratory tested and declared safe to drink. It would be different if living somewhere in the bush where there is no access to clean water. The problem some people have is when they don,t put water in the tank and let it run dry. The recommendation to use distilled water in North America is to do with lawsuits otherwise every Tom, Dick, and Jane would sue the manufactures for one thing or another. Dielaughing
08-15-2012 03:04 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Humidifier (An Imortant Question)
A few comments:

  1. For some reason, bottled distilled water is hard to find in many locations outside the USA.
  2. Very good drinking water may actually be bad for CPAP humidifier use. Even good, "uncontaminated," healthy, good tasting water may have minerals that are bad for your CPAP. In fact, distilled water tastes funny due to the lack of minerals, and some premium drinking water takes distilled water and adds minerals to improve the taste. Reasonable levels of minerals are harmless and may even be beneficial for drinking, but not for your humidifier.
  3. While tap water may be reasonably clean, whatever crud is there gets concentrated because it gets left behind when the water evaporates. Fill completely at night, then dump the water every morning if you use anything other than distilled.
  4. There are a number of devices to remove minerals for use with steam irons, humidifiers, etc. I would not use any such a device for a humidifier unless it's specifically designed for drinking water. There are some chemicals involved, plus the possibility that the filter is a good environment for germs to grow.
  5. Here in the US, you can find "distilled" water in gallon "milk" jugs that is intended for drinking and other purposes. It's under $1 per gallon, so it's easy for us, so a lot of us are pretty adamant about distilled water.
  6. If you can drink the water, I wouldn't worry about the health effects of minerals from inhaling the water. Even if it did form some sort of mineral dust, that should stick to the mucous in your lungs and throat and get swallowed just like all the naturally occurring dust in the air your breathe does. It shouldn't form mineral dust, though.
  7. I'm more worried about various contaminants getting concentrated in the water tank and forming a good breeding place for germs. In theory, the germs should stay in the water as it evaporates, but I'd still rather not have nasty water. There's some risk of getting droplets or some sort of growth that produces airborne spores.
  8. There's usually an insurance replacement schedule to replace the tank, hose, and mask every x months. You can build up a set of spares and swap them out as you clean them to let them sit dry and kill of the germs. Get a spare tank, wash it really thoroughly once a week or so and sit it aside to dry until next week, then switch tanks. I wash my tank and plastic mask parts in the dishwasher.


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08-21-2012 06:35 PM
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Podd Offline

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Post: #18
RE: Humidifier (An Imortant Question)
Mmmm, a good post there Archangle.
I think water purity reports should be in the public domain, I would be very interested if anybody has obtained one?
It seems 'Passover' Humidifiers have such small water particles that reach your Airways/Lungs, it would be 'impossible' to carry a virus or bacteria as these are much bigger than the 'Tiny' water particles, as for whether anything else could be 'Carried' by the Air rather than the water droplets, particually in a 'Leak' type scenario maybe another matter?
I don't want to scare anybody, BUT......
There are over 200 different chemicals found in today’s public water supply and many of them have been linked to disease or illness by medical studies.
Chlorine and Fluoride
People will be familiar with chlorine and fluoride which are added to our water during its treatment to disinfect and kill bacteria but chlorine and fluoride have nasty properties of there own which people may not be so aware of. Chlorine is used in industry as a bleach and can cause irritation to the skin, eyes, nose and mouth, as well as allergic reactions and damage to the respiration system. Fluoride has been linked to Skeletal fluorosis, increased risk of Alzheimer’s and depression of the thyroid gland, a common cause of obesity. Worryingly fluoride has even been associated with low IQ, mental retardation and learning difficulties in children.
Lead
Lead was regularly used in pipes, solder and fittings before its harmful effects where fully understood. Many of these pipes are still in use meaning that we our exposed to this harmful substance on a daily basis. Lead is toxic and has a cumulative effect meaning that it builds up over years and can cause serious health problems in later life. It can cause memory problems, damage to the kidneys, brain and central nervous system and reproductive problems in both men and women.
Lead has also been linked to premature birth, reduced birth weight and learning difficulties in children. Lead is most easily absorbed by growing tissue meaning that infants, children, pregnant women and unborn babies are even more venerable to lead poisoning than others.
Benzene
Benzene is used in petrol and is released into the air through exhaust fumes and is also used in the making of plastic, rubber and synthetic fabrics. Its finds it way into the water systems through air pollution and ground contamination. Benzene is a cancer carcinogen and has been linked to causing cancer of the heart, lungs, liver and brain along with irritation of the stomach, dizziness and convulsions.
Benzene also causes damage to red blood cells, decreasing their number, which can lead to anaemia, bone marrow disease, depression of the immune system and increased risk of infection.
Bromate
Bromate is formed when ozone used for disinfecting water reacts with bromide which is a naturally occurring element. Bromate targets the kidney so people with existing kidney problems are especially at risk. Can cause abdominal pain, vomiting, nausea, and diarrhoea. Over the long term bromate can lead to nervous system damage, hearing loss and kidney defects.
Copper is released into our water from the erosion of pipes. In small doses it can cause irritation of the eyes, nose and mouth, headaches, dizziness, vomiting and diarrhoea. Long term exposure can lead to liver and kidney damage.
Arsenic, causes skin damage and has been linked to cancer of the lungs, skin, bladder and kidneys.
Cyanide, respiratory, heart and central nervous system most at risk, prevents cells from using oxygen causing them to die.
Mercury, disruption of brain functions, learning problems, deafness, memory loss, sperm damage, birth defects and miscarriages.
Pesticides, Ontological cancer, inborn deformities and immune system deficiencies.
Nitrates, birth defects and increased risk of cancer. People with heart, lung disease or cancer are more susceptible to nitrates toxic effects.
Obviously not the full list but serious food for thought all the same, I believe the situation may even be worse in the USA.
Even if water was 100% to start with it sure isn't when it reaches your tap, hopefully it won't have sufficient contaminants to make you ill.
You can rest assured that there are some very clever people who decide for us what is safe and what is not and don't worry us with the risks we are taking just having a drink, not to mention the few who blow the stuff up their noses, no sleep for me tonight?
08-22-2012 04:58 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Machine: ResMed AirCurve10 VAuto
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CPAP Pressure: MaxI 13.6 | MinE 5.2 | PS 4.4
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Other Comments: Diagnosed Nov 2011. Conquered aerophagia.

Sex: Male
Location: Houston, Texas

Post: #19
RE: Humidifier (An Imortant Question)
(08-22-2012 04:58 PM)Podd Wrote:  I think water purity reports should be in the public domain, I would be very interested if anybody has obtained one?

I believe they are in the US. One city 'round these parts was in recent years rated as having one of the best municipal water plants in the nation. I was at lunch today with a resident and she said "but it tastes bad."

Quote:You can rest assured that there are some very clever people who decide for us what is safe and what is not and don't worry us with the risks we are taking just having a drink, not to mention the few who blow the stuff up their noses, no sleep for me tonight?

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? "Having a drink" means adding enough alcohol to kill any bacteria that might be in the water. It doesn't do anything for lead, but they test for that. Not sure about the PCB's and the tons of other stuff that they've found but still don't test for.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
08-22-2012 07:04 PM
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mjbearit Offline

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Post: #20
RE: Humidifier (An Imortant Question)
I think you are right Sleepster. We receive a report from our water district quarterly or semi annually or something, I can't remember. The reason I can't remember is because it may as well be written in a combination of Hieroglyphics and ancient Mayan! They assure us that they are among the tops in the country though.....somehow I don't feel better!

As always, YMMV! You do not have to agree or disagree, I am not a professional so my mental meanderings are simply recollections of things from my own life.

PRS1 - Auto - A-Flex x2 - 12.50 - 20 - Humid x2 - Swift FX
08-22-2012 07:45 PM
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