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Humidifier (distilled vs. tap water)
#61
The idea modern municipal water could have amoeba and cysts is absurd. Even if they were present, they could not become a respirable aerosol. The only issue with public water supply are potential mineral deposits and (minor) potential vaporized disinfection chemicals or byproducts.

I hate water threads.
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#62
I've seen so many posts about Distilled Water and how it leaches minerals from you and causes all kinds of mineral deficits.

If all you drank was distilled water, the lack of minerals in the water could/might cause some mineral deficiency after awhile. Would depend a lot on your diet and any mineral containing supplements you might be taking.

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#63
(07-26-2015, 12:04 AM)Zoroaster Wrote: I am a chemist and 15+ year cpap user. If you stop and think for a moment, the water vapor coming off your humidifier has just evaporated from the tank. Essentially, it is distilling itself as you breathe. The principal reasons to be concerned about the quality of the water you put into the tank are:

1) narsty beasties growing in the tank (think respirable mold particles),
2) crusty mineral residue left behind when the water evaporates,
3) volatile solutes distilling off individually (a temporary condition, while the water comes to temp, and briefly thereafter),
4) solutes that co-distill (google the word "azeotrope") Right: where did say you got this so-called "water?"

There's also a possibility that the humidifier may "aerosolize" some water droplets. If you overfill the water tank on some models, they will spray some droplets of water down the hose. The tanks are probably designed not to spray droplets, but it's a possibility. If you look at the water in an S9 or PRS1 humidifier while breathing, the surface of the water ripples quite a bit while in use.

Aerosolized water from an air conditioning unit is what spread the 1976 Legionnaire's disease outbreak.

The chlorine in your tap water will probably evaporate after sitting in the tank for a while. Germs get sucked in with the airflow. Distilled water should keep germ growth down because there isn't much food for the germs to grow on.

It's probably not too big a problem, but it's a good motive to keep your water tank clean.

If mold grew on the "dry" surfaces in the water tank, or formed mats on the surface, they could easily spread spores into the air stream.

As for volatile compounds in the water, if you're using your drinking water supply, you're already ingesting those compounds in greater quantities when you drink the water. It seems to me that most things that are harmful to inhale would also be harmful to drink as well.

(07-29-2015, 08:17 AM)ddefendi Wrote: I've seen so many posts about Distilled Water and how it leaches minerals from you and causes all kinds of mineral deficits.

If all you drank was distilled water, the lack of minerals in the water could/might cause some mineral deficiency after awhile. Would depend a lot on your diet and any mineral containing supplements you might be taking.

The concern about distilled water is mostly from some quack theory about adrenal insufficiency and the people spreading misinformation and fear to sell mineral supplements to add to your water.

If you have some sort of equipment that processes a lot of water, deionized or distilled water will actually leach metal and other stuff out of the equipment and damage equipment if it's not designed to handle it. "Normal" water tends to not do this as much, probably partly due to the fact that normal water tends to leave scale behind. There's a reason we sometimes call water a "universal" solvent. Humans don't dissolve so easily.

I doubt you'd really suffer mineral deficiency from drinking tap water unless you're on some weird diet and drinking exclusively distilled water. The food we eat has minerals, including minerals from the water your food drank when it was alive. Much of our food is also cooked in "tap" water.
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#64
If tap water is so freaking dangerous, then never shower again. You are inhaling more water in bigger droplets, and therefore more "amoeba and cysts", during your single shower than you are during probably an entire month or year of CPAP use.

Good grief people, there is no freaking way a droplet of water with something evil on it is going to travel INTACT from the water in the humidifier all the way up the hose, through the mask, into your nostril, and into your system. As long as your tub is clean, your hose is cleaner, and your water is drinkable, you'll be fine. Stop freaking and get to sleep.
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#65
(07-29-2015, 12:37 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote: If tap water is so freaking dangerous, then never shower again. You are inhaling more water in bigger droplets, and therefore more "amoeba and cysts", during your single shower than you are during probably an entire month or year of CPAP use.

Good grief people, there is no freaking way a droplet of water with something evil on it is going to travel INTACT from the water in the humidifier all the way up the hose, through the mask, into your nostril, and into your system. As long as your tub is clean, your hose is cleaner, and your water is drinkable, you'll be fine. Stop freaking and get to sleep.

Large drops don't travel as easily. They're less likely than tiny drops to make the trip into your nose, down into your lungs, etc. Tiny aerosolized drops are much more mobile.

The water in your humidifier also gets more of a chance to sit and let germs grow. Also, if you top the water off, the germ food accumulates as the water evaporates.

I don't think it's a big problem, especially if you use distilled water or dump your tap water once a day. However, it's not a completely unwarranted concern.
Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
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#66
(07-28-2015, 08:32 PM)PaytonA Wrote:
(07-28-2015, 07:43 PM)jingo Wrote: .........The reason distilled water can pull minerals from your body is it is acidic/ low ph. Your body must maintain the ph balance of your blood at all costs so if you drink large quantities of soda pop, much lower ph than distilled water, your body will pull minerals from your bones.

The tiny amount of distilled water you breath in is quit low compared to one coca cola.

Highly purified water (whether by distillation or reverse osmosis) is exactly neutral. After exposure to air for a period of time it will dissolve some of the CO2 from the air and become *slightly* acidic.

I would like to see some reference that shows that carbonated drinks decalcify one's bones. If the acid from carbonated drinks cause decalcification what does the stronger acid that is native to your stomach do?

Bewst Regards,

PaytonA

google osteoporosis and coca cola, youll be snowed under. if you drink ph less than 3 phosphoric acid(coca cola) in enough quantity for enough time you will leach the minerals right out of your bones.

your stomach acid is meant for your stomach and no other portion of your body.

ps: the most pure distilled water is type 1, and according to the national institute of health, they tested type 1 water at 5.4 ph. ph is measure of alkalinity vs acid most water born minerals are alkaline in nature, thats why in hard water areas we use acidic cleansers and why you clean mineral residue with vinegar.

of course if you really want to see the research run your searches on pubmed, it will take a while but youll find all you want.
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#67
(07-28-2015, 08:39 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: The idea modern municipal water could have amoeba and cysts is absurd. Even if they were present, they could not become a respirable aerosol. The only issue with public water supply are potential mineral deposits and (minor) potential vaporized disinfection chemicals or byproducts.

I hate water threads.

Take your head out of the sand and google residents advised to boil water. Youll be surprised!

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#68
(07-29-2015, 12:37 PM)PaulaO2 Wrote: If tap water is so freaking dangerous, then never shower again. You are inhaling more water in bigger droplets, and therefore more "amoeba and cysts", during your single shower than you are during probably an entire month or year of CPAP use.

Good grief people, there is no freaking way a droplet of water with something evil on it is going to travel INTACT from the water in the humidifier all the way up the hose, through the mask, into your nostril, and into your system. As long as your tub is clean, your hose is cleaner, and your water is drinkable, you'll be fine. Stop freaking and get to sleep.

My wife had a bone marrow transplant for lukemia and she uses a cpap. Her doctors told us of their patients getting parasites etc through their cpaps. We also run filters on our showers to avoid just such an occurence.

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#69
(07-29-2015, 04:28 PM)jingo Wrote:
(07-28-2015, 08:39 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: The idea modern municipal water could have amoeba and cysts is absurd. Even if they were present, they could not become a respirable aerosol. The only issue with public water supply are potential mineral deposits and (minor) potential vaporized disinfection chemicals or byproducts.

I hate water threads.

Take your head out of the sand and google residents advised to boil water. Youll be surprised!

Trolling doesn't become you. I'm aware of boil water advisories, drinking water standards and health risk. Rarely is a warning ever issued for anything other than bacterial contamination or intake contaminate. Cysts and amoeba are not present in U.S public water ever. I'm currently doing emission quantification and risk assessment for hazardous volatile organic compounds in a municipal wastewater system. Take your bull-sh*t elsewhere. If the water is drinkable, it's fit to use in the humidifier.
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#70
(07-28-2015, 08:32 PM)PaytonA Wrote: Highly purified water (whether by distillation or reverse osmosis) is exactly neutral. After exposure to air for a period of time it will dissolve some of the CO2 from the air and become *slightly* acidic.

I would like to see some reference that shows that carbonated drinks decalcify one's bones. If the acid from carbonated drinks cause decalcification what does the stronger acid that is native to your stomach do?

And we might remember that we are breathing in "distilled" water 24 hours a day in the form of the water vapour that is always there in the air you breath. If "distilled" water can wreck your bones it would have done so before you grew up.

We breath hydrogen dioxide gas 24 hours a day.
Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

Your brain is not the boss.

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