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Humidifiers not safe - seriously?
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FrankNichols Offline

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Posts: 714
Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #1
Humidifiers not safe - seriously?
I have seen numerous comments now about knocking the machine over and spilling the humidifier water into it and causing problems.

Seriously?

Here we have a machine that plugs into a wall socket (Mains for you brits) and it has a water tank integrated into it. This machine is designed to be set on a table next to our bed and hooked up to us with a flexible hose.

Who are us? Us are people that frequently stop breathing at night and toss and turn and jerk around as a result. While we are connected to this machine.

Seriously? I mean, seriously, these are not designed with water barriers between the electronics and the water and yet are intended for use by people that flop around while connected to them?

And they cost between $500 and $5000. I mean it's not like they have a tight engineering budget.

Has anyone taken one of these apart and looked to see if inside the electronics are actually exposed to the water?

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
04-16-2016 08:34 PM
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PoolQ Offline

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Posts: 986
Joined: Jul 2015

Machine: AirCurve 10 VAUTO
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Amara View
Humidifier: Integrated
CPAP Pressure: 6.2, 15, PS4.0
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Sillicon Valley

Post: #2
RE: Humidifiers not safe - seriously?
First they use a brick to poser them this brick outputs 12-24 VDC so zero danger to anyone. Second the humidifier is removable, has to be, and if water can it will find a way. Water is heavier than air so what seals air may not seal water. There is a trade off water tight verses the consumer is able to take it apart to add water. The problem is that you have an air path that requires a motor shaft to breach the pathway and you have to have the air pass over water so the water if spilled has access to the motor shaft. It will leak. I suppose the could have used a magnetic coupling, and maybe they did. now you get to the gaskets for the entry and exit airway to the humidifier chamber and everything has to stay sealed when dropped.

What happens if it is dropped with the humidifier chamber on top and it bounces lose with the water pouring out directly into the air pathway or maybe not into the airway but around the plastic frame that is not sealed at all.

It seems like a simple thing right until you are assigned to do it and start running tests Smile
04-16-2016 11:53 PM
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palerider Offline

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Posts: 440
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: s9 vpap auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: p10
Humidifier: none
CPAP Pressure: 18/13+
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Dallas(ish)

Post: #3
RE: Humidifiers not safe - seriously?
(04-16-2016 08:34 PM)FrankNichols Wrote:  I have seen numerous comments now about knocking the machine over and spilling the humidifier water into it and causing problems.

Seriously?
yes. seriously.

FrankNichols Wrote:Here we have a machine that plugs into a wall socket (Mains for you brits) and it has a water tank integrated into it. This machine is designed to be set on a table next to our bed and hooked up to us with a flexible hose.
a machine that runs on 12 volts, unless it's a resmed, in which case it runs on 24volts dc.

FrankNichols Wrote:Seriously? I mean, seriously, these are not designed with water barriers between the electronics and the water and yet are intended for use by people that flop around while connected to them? ..

there's an air path between the filter, sensors, fan, more sensors and output. the electronics, except the flow and pressure sensors, and motor (in the case of resmed) are outside this path.

FrankNichols Wrote:Has anyone taken one of these apart and looked to see if inside the electronics are actually exposed to the water?
why yes, yes I have. but when you dump the thing on the floor, and water starts sloshing around, the unit itself is not a sealed container, and water can get in the vents, and onto the board, and do what it does.

I haven't had the chance to dissect an air10 yet, but here's a trip into a S9 series to give my comments a bit of cred: http://imgur.com/a/S0ojG#0
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2016 12:09 AM by palerider.)
04-17-2016 12:08 AM
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vsheline Offline

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Posts: 1,908
Joined: Jul 2012

Machine: S9 VPAP Adapt (USA Model# 36007, not better 36037 or 36067)
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F10 or SimPlus w/ 2Liners. MirageQuatro & Gecko gel pad
Humidifier: H5i
CPAP Pressure: 15 EPAP, PS 5-10
CPAP Software: ResScan

Other Comments: Marfan Syndrome, chronic bradycardia, occasional Cheyne-Stokes Respiration

Sex: Male
Location: California, USA

Post: #4
RE: Humidifiers not safe - seriously?
The biggest problem is usually if the blower gets any water in it.

No fail safe way to keep water out of the blower if water spills, because there has to be an open passageway for the air to travel to the water tank.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2016 12:12 AM by vsheline.)
04-17-2016 12:09 AM
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OMyMyOHellYes Offline

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Posts: 915
Joined: Mar 2013

Machine: Respironics 560 Auto
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed Mirage FX
Humidifier: Respironics System One (no heated hose)
CPAP Pressure: 08.0-15.0 cm/H2O
CPAP Software: EncoreBasic

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Texas

Post: #5
RE: Humidifiers not safe - seriously?
You guys give them too much credit for the power brick. It is a bug - not a feature. Used to be, they put the power converter inside the unit. That was a good thing because bricks are just laziness on the part of manufacturers. The reduce the perceived foot print (they don't really because you still have to have one and that adds a separate footprint to the tabletop or somewhere else), and make it easier to assemble the unit because they don't have to physically put that power supply in the unit. But in the end, it is the consumer that has to deal with two separate boxes. In eight or nine years of using the machine, I have pulled the unit off the table top zero times. If I did it tonight, it would be an occurrence rate of 00.03% of the time. I understand some people have. But from a designer's standpoint, i expect it is a nearly non-occurrence, statistically. Any design is a series of compromises and preparing for every eventuality would result in higHer (probably prohibitive) costs or a hugely bulky macine the size of a small mini-van.

If someone is a person that does tend to pull the machine off onto the floor a lot, then about the only solutions available are (1) forgo using humidity or (2) buy a separate humidifier that is NOT part of the A/C/BiPAP and connect it with a second full length hose and get it a long way away from the unit...

OMMOHY
04-17-2016 06:24 AM
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FrankNichols Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 714
Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #6
RE: Humidifiers not safe - seriously?
I understand the power supply is outside the unit and is 12v, so should be safe for me, that was not my point, my point was was the unit damaging itself.

The only thing in the blower that can be damaged by distilled water would be the bearing and sealed bearings are available.

I don't know anything about the sensors so, possibly that is the problem. As far as the computer/system goes, it certainly can be make water proof to 50 feet (exaggeration) at little or no cost. (At least water resistant.)

Connections from the computer to the blower are also easy enough to make water proof.

So, other than the sensors it should not be easy to damage a unit with a splash of distilled water.

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
04-17-2016 06:55 AM
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FrankNichols Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 714
Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #7
RE: Humidifiers not safe - seriously?
I guess I just find it a little ironic that a product that is designed to stop me from flopping around in my sleep warns me to be careful while flopping around in my sleep, so I don't damage it.

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
04-17-2016 08:05 AM
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OpalRose Offline

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Posts: 3,181
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: PR System One REMstar Auto 560 with A Flex
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: AirFit P10 For Her
Humidifier: REMStar heated humidifier with heated hose
CPAP Pressure: Auto Cpap 10-13 AFLEX 1
CPAP Software: SleepyHead EncoreBasic

Other Comments: Started CPAP Therapy October 23, 2014

Sex: Female
Location: Northeast Ohio, USA

Post: #8
RE: Humidifiers not safe - seriously?
I personally do not want to find out how much damage spilled water will do to my machine.
I like my machine and don't relish the thought of replacing it anytime soon.

I've been on APAP for aprox. 18 months now, and have never pulled my machine off the nightstand, and I turn a lot during the night. (Now that doesn't count the time I masked up and deceided to walk across the room because I forgot something.).
Oh-jeez
Even doing something like that, the machine hardly moved. It also helps that I place a rubberized shelf liner under my machine, which keeps it very stable.

OpalRose
04-17-2016 08:16 AM
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Rick_V Offline

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Posts: 51
Joined: Jan 2016

Machine: Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: Airfit P10
Humidifier: Unsure
CPAP Pressure: 5-9
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: CPAPing since 2006

Sex: Male
Location: Fort White, Fl.

Post: #9
RE: Humidifiers not safe - seriously?
I have always just put mine on the floor. Problem solved.
04-17-2016 08:38 AM
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FrankNichols Offline

Advisory Members

Posts: 714
Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #10
RE: Humidifiers not safe - seriously?
(04-17-2016 08:16 AM)OpalRose Wrote:  Even doing something like that, the machine hardly moved. It also helps that I place a rubberized shelf liner under my machine, which keeps it very stable.

Great idea! I will put one in myself tonight.

This thread is not so much about it being a "big deal" or common problem, it is just I have a sick sense of humor and when I see posts or comments in other threads about the "danger" of the humidifier, it just strikes me as ironic...

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
04-17-2016 08:44 AM
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