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Hydrocodone and increased AHI?
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archangle Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Hydrocodone and increased AHI?
I think it may not be as bad as some people think.

It's probably a case where you're hyperventilating, then not feeling the urge to breathe until your CO2/O2 adjusts, then you breathe heavily for a while to catch up, and repeat. I don't know if the O2 levels will drop enough to really matter in this case. Yes, you're not breathing for 15 seconds or so, but maybe your O2 doesn't actually drop that much because you were breathing heavily for a while before and you are already loaded up on O2.

One concern is that in this situation, you can wash out the CO2, which sort of fuels your respiratory drive, and your O2 can drop before your CO2 rises enough to make you breathe again.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
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Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
01-07-2015 06:07 AM
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archangle Offline
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Machine: ResMed S9 AutoSet
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Post: #32
No German
To change it from German to English, click on help (hilfe) and then the 3rd item is language (Sprache Auswalen)

Thanks to A Klerk for the answer.

I don't know how you ended up in German to begin with.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
01-07-2015 08:17 AM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #33
RE: Hydrocodone and increased AHI?
(01-06-2015 11:06 PM)quiescence at last Wrote:  by the way, look at this strip of my 2nd night on Auto CPAP. yep. AHI over 100! But, my night ended up at AHI of 10.09 (RDI 12.30).

Your CAs have a signature more like Cheyne-Stokes Respiration.

Dolla Bill's look like he gasps for air. I say that because of the volume of air on the first breath and the flow pattern not rising and falling as in yours.

[Image: Cheyne-Stokes.jpg]

(01-07-2015 06:07 AM)archangle Wrote:  It's probably a case where you're hyperventilating, then not feeling the urge to breathe until your CO2/O2 adjusts, then you breathe heavily for a while to catch up, and repeat. I don't know if the O2 levels will drop enough to really matter in this case. Yes, you're not breathing for 15 seconds or so, but maybe your O2 doesn't actually drop that much because you were breathing heavily for a while before and you are already loaded up on O2.

One concern is that in this situation, you can wash out the CO2, which sort of fuels your respiratory drive, and your O2 can drop before your CO2 rises enough to make you breathe again.

That's Cheyne-Stokes.

(01-07-2015 08:17 AM)archangle Wrote:  I don't know how you ended up in German to begin with.

Wir werden die Welt erobern.

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2015 09:19 AM by justMongo.)
01-07-2015 09:08 AM
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quiescence at last Offline

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Post: #34
RE: Hydrocodone and increased AHI?
@Just - you know that is what I thought originally and why didn't the machine or SH count it as such, while is obviously counted "periodic breathing" in other traces. just know that it cleared up.

Dedicated to QALity sleep.
You'll note I am listed as an Advisory Member. I am honored to be listed as such. See the fine print - Advisory Members as a group provide advice and suggestions to Apnea Board administrators and staff concerning Apnea Board operation and administrative policies. Membership in the Advisory Member group should not be understood as in any way implying medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.
01-07-2015 09:27 AM
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Dolla Bill Offline

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Post: #35
RE: No German
(01-07-2015 08:17 AM)archangle Wrote:  To change it from German to English, click on help (hilfe) and then the 3rd item is language (Sprache Auswalen)

Thanks to A Klerk for the answer.

I don't know how you ended up in German to begin with.


That DID IT! Got it in English now! Thanks Thanks Thanks
01-07-2015 11:36 AM
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Dolla Bill Offline

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Post: #36
RE: Hydrocodone and increased AHI?
Quit taking the hydrocodone as of 2014/1/5 and none on the 6th. For some reason data card did not show anything on the night of the 5th, but looking at the machine, the AHI was 13.87

On the night of the 6th date card read and AHI is 3.7 Big Grin !

I guess there are possible other factors but here is the breakdown:

January
1st took 2 hydrocodone - AHI 33
2nd took 2 hydrocodone - AHI 13
3rd took 2 hydrocodone - AHI 16
4th took 3 hydrocodone- six hours apart. AHI 38.23
5th no hydrocodone - AHI 13.87
6th no hydrocodone - AHI 3.7 (did peak at 8). A lot of pain during the night. Difficulty sleeping

Side effects. Feel anxious and depressed. Seem to be typical withdrawal symptoms. Left message with doctor. Don't feel like I am making good decisions right now, but concerned that if the hydrocodone is raising the AHI and my alternative is having night pain, what will it be like after surgery?

Will I need pain meds to sleep and what then about the AHI? Will keep you informed.

On the bright side, archangle and surferdude helped me get the 9.8 sleepyhead in english! Thanks
01-07-2015 12:01 PM
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justMongo Offline

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Post: #37
RE: Hydrocodone and increased AHI?
Bill:

My personal experience with Rx opiates is that it only takes about a week to set the hook. And, that some withdrawal occurs after cessation.
(Imagine what withdrawal must be like for those who abuse opioids.)
Working it with your doc is best. If needed, a pain management specialist can be brought in.

Darn, I was looking forward to teaching you German!

Best wishes on your next surgery,

Mongo

INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
01-07-2015 12:13 PM
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Dolla Bill Offline

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Post: #38
RE: Hydrocodone and increased AHI?
Abuse? I see very little effect except for some pain relief. Certainly don't see how these could be called "recreational drugs!"

I may have a peculiar constitution - much else about me is peculiar. Took some Oxycoden once, but aspirin did more for me. <grin>

Sorry about the German. Getting back to my old Cadillacs, love the Heckflosse! Will keep you informed as things progress about the surgery.
01-07-2015 01:11 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Hydrocodone and increased AHI?
The problem is that there are a lot of very serious medical conditions that cause Cheyne Stokes breathing, so it's scary. However, it can happen with CPAP and doesn't necessarily mean anything that serious is wrong.

It's a bit like having heartburn. It could be a heart attack, or it could be the chili cheesedog you just ate.

Yes, you're not breathing for x seconds, but you then breathe fairly normally for a while, and repeat. It's a problem with a feedback system that isn't that stable.

What's unclear is how seriously does this harm you? Your CO2 levels are probably going up and down during the cycle. Your O2 levels may or may not be going up and down that much because you may be fairly saturated when your breathing wanes.

I don't think there's enough information in the CPAP data to tell you whether it is harmful or not at this level.

One thing I sometimes do when considering things like this is look at the flow rate graph and try to imitate it. If you're breathing 15 seconds on and 15 off, look at a clock and try to repeat the pattern. Breathe in heavily for 15 seconds, then not for 15. See how bad it makes you feel.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
01-08-2015 12:42 AM
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Dolla Bill Offline

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Post: #40
RE: Hydrocodone and increased AHI?
I think I have good news. Had 7.4 hours of good sleep at 5.2 AHI. Tried a new pain RX called diclofenac sodium. Minor pain.

I am closely monitoring the AHI, but seems to be OK. Is there anything else I should be watching? Okay

I am hoping that I had some kind of unusual episodes and am back where I should be.

Tomorrow I go in for an "airways check". Something that they run on all apnea people and preop. I will mention the AHI problem and see what they think. They seem to be familiar with apnea and have asked me to bring the S9 when I have the surgery, as I will be asleep.

Don't know what kind of anesthesia they propose. Will keep you all informed.

Want to say again how much I appreciate your help these last few days. It is strange but comforting how close I feel to people here whom I have never met.

Still a little anxious about the surgery, but feel much better. A combination of your support, hopefully getting past some of the withdrawal symptoms, and a belief that the surgeon does these operations all the time and knows what he is doing.BUT I'll be watching and monitoring,Thanks
01-08-2015 06:01 AM
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