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ICD Patients & AirFit F20 Users
#1
ICD Patients & AirFit F20 Users
OK, this question is probably going to involve a very narrow segment of the community, but here it goes.

Are there any ICD patients who are using an AirFit F20 mask?  If so, is it creating any issues with your ICD?

For those who are curious an ICD is an implanted Cardiac Defibrillator.  It is typically implanted under the skin on the left side just below the clavicle.  There are other styles and different places where it can be implanted, but question refers to this position.

The concern is that an ICD has a reed switch that can disable the defibrillator (useful in many situations).  This switch is activated (to disable the device) via a magnet.  So, you can see it is somewhat questionable to have a magnet in the area of your ICD while sleeping.

Manufacturers of the devices typically instruct you keep magnets at least six inches from your device, but the way I sleep maintaining that distance would be questionable.

Some members of an ICD board I am on started discussing the issue so I thought I would try from the xPAP side to see if anyone has any experience with the issue.
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#2
RE: ICD Patients & AirFit F20 Users
Unless you have some way of knowing when the reed switch has de-activated your ICD, I think you would be taking your chances.

Personally, I never liked the magnets flapping at the ends of the straps because they often stuck to each other while I was trying to put on my N10.
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#3
RE: ICD Patients & AirFit F20 Users
The user manual for the Resmed F20 has a warning to keep the Lower straps at least 2 inches away from any medical implant.
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#4
RE: ICD Patients & AirFit F20 Users
(06-30-2018, 09:30 AM)Walla Walla Wrote: The user manual for the Resmed F20 has a warning to keep the Lower straps at least 2 inches away from any medical implant.

Thanks!  That is exactly the type of information I was hoping to find!  Had been researching their site trying to find the technical data on the components but had not located it yet.

Thanks again!
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#5
RE: ICD Patients & AirFit F20 Users
My electrophysiologist warned against the use of ANY mask with powerful magnets as they may deactivate the therapy protocol. He said that magnets, especially the ring magnet sold by Medtronic, should only be used when querying the device, uploading programming, or stopping the administration of therapy during procedures or in the case of device faults leading to excessive false positives.

Since I am a side sleeper (left side), my mask magnets would be in close proximity to my ACID when my head is down and my chin is resting over the device.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
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#6
RE: ICD Patients & AirFit F20 Users
That was my concern, srlevine1.  Ideally someone with a Medtronic would have used one. They have a warning tone.  I have discussed interference from many objects with my device tech, and have even conducted a test with my Apple Watch while being interrogated to make sure there was no interference.  I sleep with the watch utilizing a sleep tracking app and often lay my arm across my chest while sleeping placing the watch almost directly over my ICD. No interference at all.
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#7
RE: ICD Patients & AirFit F20 Users
(06-30-2018, 06:15 PM)Tinman53 Wrote: That was my concern, srlevine1.  Ideally, someone with a Medtronic would have used one. They have a warning tone.  I have discussed interference from many objects with my device tech, and have even conducted a test with my Apple Watch while being interrogated to make sure there was no interference.  I sleep with the watch utilizing a sleep tracking app and often lay my arm across my chest while sleeping placing the watch almost directly over my ICD. No interference at all.

You could bring the mask with you to your next device check and see if anything is triggered. You might even be able to do something similar using the Carelink transmission device. The therapeutic magnets that switch the vt detection and response off have a minimum field strength of 90 gauss measured at 40mm (1.5") from the surface of the device.  

Medtronic appears to hate talking specifics with patients and usually tells you to speak with your doc or device tech. Even if anecdotal evidence indicated it might be safe, I think I would prefer to keep the tachyarrhythmia therapy response on at all times -- awake or asleep. 

Best of luck finding a mask that works for you.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
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#8
RE: ICD Patients & AirFit F20 Users
Resmed manual about the magnets on the F20. "The magnetic field strength is less than 400 mT." Converted to gauss would be 4000. What that means I have no clue.
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Membership in the Advisory Members group does not imply medical expertise or qualification for advising Sleep Apnea patients concerning their treatment.



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#9
RE: ICD Patients & AirFit F20 Users
(06-30-2018, 08:59 PM)Walla Walla Wrote: Resmed manual about the magnets on the F20. "The magnetic field strength is less than 400 mT."  Converted to gauss would be 4000. What that means I have no clue.

It appears that the magnets on the F20 (less than 400 mT or 4000 gauss) are above the strength needed to switch off the vt detection and therapy using a Medtronic magnet which is a minimum of 90 gauss at 40 mm.  Of course, it would depend on how much the magnet is under the 400 mT and how far from the device it might be. It appears that the suggested distance be at least 50 mm (about 2 inches). 

The specifications for the Medtronic Magnet that is used to turn off vt sensing and therapy or for other purposes can be found at https://wwwp.medtronic.com/crs-upload/le...-Sep02.pdf 

I would definitely seek more information from your device tech. 

Lying on my left side with my head turned to the right (the way I normally sleep), the lower magnets are within 2 inches of my device.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
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#10
RE: ICD Patients & AirFit F20 Users
Fascinating as Spock might say. That's to mean having discussions on implanted medical devices with magnet controls and that we'd need to consider magnet clasps on a mask potential interference.

Don't take this as I'm taking this issue lightly or anything like that at all. I soon have to consider whether the scanner at CVS or security checks at an airport will be an issue and cause shocks or not when I'm walking around with a spinal cord stimulation device implanted. Yep I know I'll be safest to just turn it off at those questionable places...

As in the beginning of the post...Fascinating!

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Dave

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