If the Vauto doesn't help I give up on CPAP

[SorryIamNormal]

Ok unrested and in pain. I in all honesty don’t think it has anything to do with CPAP. That said I was told the same thing by a doctor about the unrested part, throw anxiety in there as well for me. The difference is I had constant flow limitations all night long with at least 4 or 5 spikes disturbing my sleep. And I needed to get rid of them. So I did it on my own. Your chart doesn’t show anything wrong at all. Some people like myself are sensitive to low level flow limitations. If you had many tick marks throughout the night I would have some suggestions for you but you don’t. I wish I could help you out man cause it seems like you’re desperate for an answer. 

I suggest looking elsewhere for answers. I’m not saying leave the forum, I’m just saying sleep apnea specialists can’t help you if your therapy is by all appearances perfect.

But Dr Stephen Park in his book Sleep Interrupted would say you can still have sleep disordered breathing and feel awful.  Another example is Lyme Disease.  There are tons of LLMD (lyme literate MD) who would swear up and down a negative test result doesn't necessarily mean anything.  And they have theories and science to back that up. 

At the same time, the level of information the theory can help me with is whatever the machine can produce.  How it does that, why it does that, and what it can't do -while may be good for speculation sake- isn't really something you can help me with. 

If I'm in bed and tossing and turning all night (and hence being aroused from some stage of sleep) afaik the machine can't detect this.  It isn't EEG.  I am open to all constructive ideas about other medical issues/insights.  Sleeprider had his own Lyme experience but then a few posts later I post my Lyme results.  I can respond to other health inquiries in realtime, because I've already done so much work..

[Osiris357]

I could be wrong but I don’t think this forum has experts out side of sleep apnea. By that I mean yes there is other diseases that have sleep disordered breathing as symptoms but we aren’t able to help with that. Treating another disease with PAP is risky at best cause the underlying cause is still festering

[Osiris357]

What I’m trying to say is nobody in this particular forum is going to suggest changes on your machine to treat another possible disease when your settings are treating your sleep apnea perfectly. This is a sleep apnea forum. Not a generalized sleep disorder breathing forum. The experts in here specialize in sleep apnea and I’m afraid more than likely won’t be able to help you. Again I could be wrong but I don’t think I am

[SorryIamNormal]

I could be wrong but I don’t think this forum has experts out side of sleep apnea. By that I mean yes there is other diseases that have sleep disordered breathing as symptoms but we aren’t able to help with that. Treating another disease with PAP is risky at best cause the underlying cause is still festering

Which is exactly the point of Parks book.  Not only are there other things under the umbrella of sleep disordred breathing that can make you feel awful, cpap itself can cause issues.  One thing it can do is create a backdraft and suck gastric juice out of your stomach!  Which is basically what I am saying.  Cpap stats aren't the end ll be all.  BUT I am thankful for the help that the community can provide and I use my criticism with discretion.

When people say MMA surgery won't help me I couldn't disagree more.  My facial and upper airway development were severely compromised.  Due to mouth breathing, modern orthodontic 'theory', and probably other things I don't know about.  My mouth is so small when I go to the dentist they have to use the childrens xray mouth guard thing. And even then I struggle with gagging.  My tognue doesn't fit inbetween my teeth on the top or bottom.  There just isn't enough room.   A 6 1 man of 220lbs should not have a mouth the size of a child.   

CPAP on someone without cranial facial deficits is different than someone who does have them.  Fix the deficeit and in my case will enlarge and increase the volume of the upperairway.  They have a 3d xray that can measure this volume and I've had it done twice.  I've got the paperwork on that if anyone wants to see it.

[SorryIamNormal]

What I’m trying to say is nobody in this particular forum is going to suggest changes on your machine to treat another possible disease when your settings are treating your sleep apnea perfectly. This is a sleep apnea forum. Not a generalized sleep disorder breathing forum. The experts in here specialize in sleep apnea and I’m afraid more than likely won’t be able to help you. Again I could be wrong but I don’t think I am

I am fine with that.  I'll check out the vauto and if that doesn't bare any fruit I will be on my way.

[17WRX]

Railing against your sleep medicine doctors and complaining about CPAP won’t make you feel any better, but it might discourage some others who are also struggling and visiting this site looking for hope.

As others have mentioned in other threads, it is possible you feel lousy for some other reason and that maybe sleep apnea is not the cause of your symptoms. I would leave that to your medical providers to decide.

If a sleep apnea forum is not the place to complain about poor care from sleep medicine doctors then what is? Sleep medicine is the newest medical specialty in the U.S and it really shows. People new to this need to know that they are not alone when it comes to getting poor quality care or doctors who don't care about anything other than AHI. 
Nor should the OP should accept everything that his doctors say as the gospel. If it doesn't sound right, it's probably not right and just because they are wearing a white coat doesn't mean they have got a clue as to what is really going on. They might just be a bad doctor. In my experience most sleep medicine doctors are pretty bad. The board certified sleep medicine doctors I've seen thus far have been a joke. They only cared about my low AHI and dismiss my severe flow limitations as if I'm speaking of a hangnail or some other trivial matter.

[SorryIamNormal]

Railing against your sleep medicine doctors and complaining about CPAP won’t make you feel any better, but it might discourage some others who are also struggling and visiting this site looking for hope.

As others have mentioned in other threads, it is possible you feel lousy for some other reason and that maybe sleep apnea is not the cause of your symptoms. I would leave that to your medical providers to decide.

If a sleep apnea forum is not the place to complain about poor care from sleep medicine doctors then what is? Sleep medicine is the newest medical specialty in the U.S and it really shows. People new to this need to know that they are not alone when it comes to getting poor quality care or doctors who don't care about anything other than AHI. 
Nor should the OP should accept everything that his doctors say as the gospel. If it doesn't sound right, it's probably not right and just because they are wearing a white coat doesn't mean they have got a clue as to what is really going on. They might just be a bad doctor. In my experience most sleep medicine doctors are pretty bad. The board certified sleep medicine doctors I've seen thus far have been a joke. They only cared about my low AHI and dismiss my severe flow limitations as if I'm speaking of a hangnail or some other trivial matter.

The sleep drs are a joke and sleeprider said himself they aren't drs merely technicians and its a scam.  Because it is.  I don't want to argue with (those who are) cpap apologists.  It only works 50% of the time.  But when it does work it can have miraculous results.  Everything suggested to me related to other diagnosis I've already done. 

I'm 100% certain my problem is craniofacial related.  And that is the reason I have sleep apnea and other sleep disordered breathing issues.  I think this board is more about analyzing cpap data, so in that context I figured complaining is a waste of time.  For the 50% of people who it does work for, analyzing and getting the data right can have the same miraculous results. 

What I will say though is if someone is going to suggest it is 'something else' then provide some constructive criticism.  If I've already been testeed for it I can respond rather quickly, and usually with the paperwork to back it up.  Don't just dismiss it.  But then again, this isn't the 'mystery illness' forum.  It's a cpap machine data analyzing forum (For the most part).

[17WRX]

Railing against your sleep medicine doctors and complaining about CPAP won’t make you feel any better, but it might discourage some others who are also struggling and visiting this site looking for hope.

As others have mentioned in other threads, it is possible you feel lousy for some other reason and that maybe sleep apnea is not the cause of your symptoms. I would leave that to your medical providers to decide.

If a sleep apnea forum is not the place to complain about poor care from sleep medicine doctors then what is? Sleep medicine is the newest medical specialty in the U.S and it really shows. People new to this need to know that they are not alone when it comes to getting poor quality care or doctors who don't care about anything other than AHI. 
Nor should the OP should accept everything that his doctors say as the gospel. If it doesn't sound right, it's probably not right and just because they are wearing a white coat doesn't mean they have got a clue as to what is really going on. They might just be a bad doctor. In my experience most sleep medicine doctors are pretty bad. The board certified sleep medicine doctors I've seen thus far have been a joke. They only cared about my low AHI and dismiss my severe flow limitations as if I'm speaking of a hangnail or some other trivial matter.

The sleep drs are a joke and sleeprider said himself they aren't drs merely technicians and its a scam.  Because it is.  I don't want to argue with (those who are) cpap apologists.  It only works 50% of the time.  But when it does work it can have miraculous results.  Everything suggested to me related to other diagnosis I've already done. 

I'm 100% certain my problem is craniofacial related.  And that is the reason I have sleep apnea and other sleep disordered breathing issues.  I think this board is more about analyzing cpap data, so in that context I figured complaining is a waste of time.  For the 50% of people who it does work for, analyzing and getting the data right can have the same miraculous results. 

What I will say though is if someone is going to suggest it is 'something else' then provide some constructive criticism.  If I've already been testeed for it I can respond rather quickly, and usually with the paperwork to back it up.  Don't just dismiss it.  But then again, this isn't the 'mystery illness' forum.  It's a cpap machine data analyzing forum (For the most part).

If your insurance will allow it you need to forget about the sleep med doctors and make an appointment with a ENT. That surgical speciality is very hard to get a residency in and you are much more likely to get someone with a far greater understanding of your problems. I made an appointment with a ENT after my last visit with my sleep doctor. Unfortunately the earliest appointment I could get is two months away but its a start in the right direction. As bad as it seems now try to hang in there. Your real problem may not be sleep related but a by product of you real issue. But still treating the AHI is still useful if your sleep study showed you have a high AHI, even if it is not addressing the core issue. I feel your pain and frustration with it all and just know you not alone. Good luck

[SorryIamNormal]

If a sleep apnea forum is not the place to complain about poor care from sleep medicine doctors then what is? Sleep medicine is the newest medical specialty in the U.S and it really shows. People new to this need to know that they are not alone when it comes to getting poor quality care or doctors who don't care about anything other than AHI. 
Nor should the OP should accept everything that his doctors say as the gospel. If it doesn't sound right, it's probably not right and just because they are wearing a white coat doesn't mean they have got a clue as to what is really going on. They might just be a bad doctor. In my experience most sleep medicine doctors are pretty bad. The board certified sleep medicine doctors I've seen thus far have been a joke. They only cared about my low AHI and dismiss my severe flow limitations as if I'm speaking of a hangnail or some other trivial matter.

The sleep drs are a joke and sleeprider said himself they aren't drs merely technicians and its a scam.  Because it is.  I don't want to argue with (those who are) cpap apologists.  It only works 50% of the time.  But when it does work it can have miraculous results.  Everything suggested to me related to other diagnosis I've already done. 

I'm 100% certain my problem is craniofacial related.  And that is the reason I have sleep apnea and other sleep disordered breathing issues.  I think this board is more about analyzing cpap data, so in that context I figured complaining is a waste of time.  For the 50% of people who it does work for, analyzing and getting the data right can have the same miraculous results. 

What I will say though is if someone is going to suggest it is 'something else' then provide some constructive criticism.  If I've already been testeed for it I can respond rather quickly, and usually with the paperwork to back it up.  Don't just dismiss it.  But then again, this isn't the 'mystery illness' forum.  It's a cpap machine data analyzing forum (For the most part).

If your insurance will allow it you need to forget about the sleep med doctors and make an appointment with a ENT. That surgical speciality is very hard to get a residency in and you are much more likely to get someone with a far greater understanding of your problems. I made an appointment with a ENT after my last visit with my sleep doctor. Unfortunately the earliest appointment I could get is two months away but its a start in the right direction. As bad as it seems now try to hang in there. Your real problem may not be sleep related but a by product of you real issue. But still treating the AHI is still useful if your sleep study showed you have a high AHI, even if it is not addressing the core issue. I feel your pain and frustration with it all and just know you not alone. Good luck

I got FESS and open functional rhinoplasty septoplasty and valve graft in July.  I sleep worse now.  The ENT kept trying to 'sell' me the Inspire sleep apnea device twice, even after I told him I'm getting MMA in approx 1 year.  I've already had the cone beam (aka CBCT) CT twice.  There isn't enough volume in my upperairway.  THIS is the problem. 

Shoving a hose with pressurized air down my throat, while it does stint the airway open, doesn't solve the problem AND can create problems of its own (that are all suppressed, just like with drugs).  I'm really losing my ability to spell and remember.  Its getting really bad. 

Have you noticed a trend with dental sleep appliances?  They all do the same thing.  They either hold your tongue in place or move your lower jaw forward.  Bringing the lower jaw forward INCREASES the space in the back of your throat (upper airway).  For example UPPP burns the tissue in the back of your throat, causing it to scar and tighten.  This then INCREASES the space in the back of your throat.  Are you seeing a trend here?

Sleep medicine has very little to do with sleep and even less to do with medicine.  It's about selling Cpap machine and supplies for life.

[JoeyWallaby]

Looking at your chart that is the only conclusion after eliminating everything else. On top of that I noticed you have some periodic breathing. That is a sign of heart trouble if I’m not mistaken. 

Not to sound like the others but your apnea is more than treated and you don’t have constant flow limitations with possible RERA’s that would explain not feeling well. Your AHI is below 1 with only 1 tick on flow limitations. 

Yes, his apneas and hypopneas are mostly treated but when you zoom in on the flow rate, he has obvious flow limitation on every single night.

I posted a few waveforms here.
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...#pid323857