Hello Guest, Welcome to Apnea Board !
As a guest, you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use.
To post a message, you must create a free account using a valid email address.

or Create an Account


New Posts   Today's Posts

Is this real Cheyne Stokes Respiration or not ?
#11
RE: Is this real Cheyne Stokes Rerspiration or not ?
Still need to post full study but here is the latest charts from last night. Weird centrals after waking but kept mask on again as I was drifting in and out before getting up.

Also, is respiration rate an issue ? Doesn't seem correct. Seems too high.

Thank you again for your help !
Post Reply Post Reply
#12
RE: Is this real Cheyne Stokes Rerspiration or not ?
Given what is shown on this chart, yes the respiration rate seems high. What else is going on health wise? Anything that affects overall health, heart, or breathing problems?
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
Post Reply Post Reply
#13
RE: Is this real Cheyne Stokes Rerspiration or not ?
I would post several 2 minute segments of your flow rate and respiration rate charts for evaluation. Pick a normal area and a few with higher rates.
Post Reply Post Reply
#14
RE: Is this real Cheyne Stokes Rerspiration or not ?
[attachment=16026][attachment=16025][attachment=16024][attachment=16023][attachment=16022]


Here are 5 with 3 showing high respiration followed by the 2 normal charts.

Thanks again !
Post Reply Post Reply
#15
RE: Is this real Cheyne Stokes Rerspiration or not ?
Here's a CSR comparison chart via Wikipedia on this

[attachment=16027]
INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
Post Reply Post Reply
#16
RE: Is this real Cheyne Stokes Rerspiration or not ?
It doesn't fit the profile of CSR but I am wondering if the "sawtooth" breathing pattern is what is contributing to a miscount of the respiration rate.
Post Reply Post Reply
#17
RE: Is this real Cheyne Stokes Rerspiration or not ?
We have seen this pattern in the past related to periodic leg movement (PLM) or even a pounding heart rate. I suspect PLM. This is also related to severe flow limitation, and it might be worth trying an EPR setting of 3 to see if we can clear up the flow limitation, or if it makes the central apnea worse. In my opinion you are suffering from a very high flow limitation problem that might respond to a bilevel pressure. I may have missed an earlier post where you were using EPR, but I think that I would start with a minimum pressure of 9.0 with EPR 3 and maximum pressure of 12.0 and see what happens. How much worse can it be?
Sleeprider
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com

____________________________________________
Download OSCAR Software
Soft Cervical Collar
Optimizing Therapy
Organize your OSCAR Charts
Attaching Files
Mask Primer
How To Deal With Equipment Supplier


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
Post Reply Post Reply
#18
RE: Is this real Cheyne Stokes Rerspiration or not ?
there may be a hint of plm in 3 of those charts. however, while IDK how plm presents in other people's flow rate, I can say that none look like the plm I see in mine.

plm can be confirmed or ruled out by video, audio recordings and witness reports. it's also helpful to look at the entire sleep study, if there is one, to see if plm was noted (it may not be mentioned in the summary).

for me, plm is a sharp inhale followed by a series of flow limited breaths, more or less equal in number before the next sharp inhale throughout the duration of the episode. the inhale 'spikes' are often associated with what looks like a snore but is actually a moan/groan in complaint. I find them most visible with a 6 or 7 minute view scale (although your relatively high breaths per minute may appear differently but your bpm isn't that much higher than my med of 15 to 20 bpm compared to your 24).

with my apap and asv, these inhales-followed-by-flow-limited-breaths cause the machines to increase pressure, which I've come to believe is a fruitless and disturbing action doomed to accomplish little to nothing because I don't believe the machine can compensate enough for my relatively forceful physical and respiratory reactions to the plm. max pressure, desirable for other reasons perhaps, had to be restricted to avoid the many disturbances and arousals that pressure responding to my respiratory response to plm causes (disturbances caused by pressure swings and runaway high pressure). maybe not a problem for you since your max pressure isn't all that high. for me, pressure above about 13cmw results in more leaks and aerophagia as well.

I do see a lot of flow limited breathing in these charts. just .04 in the 95%tile column but many / most may be unflagged. no flow limitation graph in the screenshots to check but I also know most of my flow limitations are not flagged. not sure if you're already at epr 3 or if it's the ramp I see in the daily statistics. if you turn off the pie chart in file/preferences/appearance we can see what your epr setting is. epr may help; if not enough, they say a bilevel with pressure support may work better.

no leak rate graph to look at either: probably a long shot but I wonder if your mask is leaking on inhale.
Post Reply Post Reply
#19
RE: Is this real Cheyne Stokes Rerspiration or not ?
Another member Hojo has an extremely high respiration rate as you do. http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...#pid223896

I think your solution is going to be difficult, but consider it a challenge to get the care you need.
Sleeprider
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com

____________________________________________
Download OSCAR Software
Soft Cervical Collar
Optimizing Therapy
Organize your OSCAR Charts
Attaching Files
Mask Primer
How To Deal With Equipment Supplier


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
Post Reply Post Reply
#20
RE: Is this real Cheyne Stokes Rerspiration or not ?
Sleeprider nailed it. What I saw was a respiration rate of 20 that was jagged and broken up by flow that reversed flow several times resulting in a high false respiration rate.
A camera may indicate what occurred through the night. Sync the camera time with your machine.

Review to see if this is recurring. Happening once means little. It is the consistency that matters.
Post Reply Post Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Cheynes stoke respiration, false flag or accurate? BDGold99 1 89 Yesterday, 04:09 PM
Last Post: Jay51
  Real or False CAs? SingingWolf 3 284 03-14-2024, 10:35 AM
Last Post: apnea505
  How bad is this really? CSA & Cheyne Stokes Little Olive 7 242 03-12-2024, 02:46 PM
Last Post: Little Olive
  CPAP not helping with sleep. Cheyne-Stokes or PB? BigBobulous 3 177 03-11-2024, 06:42 PM
Last Post: Sleeprider
  [CPAP] Cheyne Stokes Respiration and Central Apnea Clusters Aldiorg 8 820 02-19-2024, 04:11 PM
Last Post: SarcasticDave94
  [Equipment] Simultaneous Reporting of Cheyne-Stokes Respiration (CSR) and Central Apnea (CA) Aldiorg 3 291 02-19-2024, 03:57 PM
Last Post: Sleeprider
Question OSCAR: Cheyne Stokes listed in event summary list but can't find a single event eyeloveeyez 5 328 02-12-2024, 09:03 PM
Last Post: eok361


New Posts   Today's Posts


About Apnea Board

Apnea Board is an educational web site designed to empower Sleep Apnea patients.