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Leak rate
#1
Have done some reading on what is as acceptable leak rate, and confused.

Is it based on the CPAP machine I have a Airsense 10 or on the mask Dreeawear.

And what is an acceptable figure.

I have not set software up as yet and can only read off Airsense?
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#2
The large leak rate on your machine is 24 Lpm, but an acceptable leak is much lower. Download SleepyHead, and I think you will find a wealth of information at your disposal. If you are using My Air, that is pretty close to worthless.
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#3
(11-21-2016, 07:55 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: The large leak rate on your machine is 24 Lpm, but an acceptable leak is much lower. Download SleepyHead, and I think you will find a wealth of information at your disposal. If you are using My Air, that is pretty close to worthless.

I wonder why Resmed would say that if the leaks are greater than or equal to 24 L/min for LESS than 30% of the night, it's ok and Mr. Green Smiley Face shows up on the info screen to tell you that. I would think they know what they are talking about.

I understand the smaller the numbers here the better off you are but, why such a discrepancy? Where did the developer of SH come up with his version of what's supposed to be good?

Maybe some people are more sensitive than others? Some days my numbers look pretty good and I am not with it and other days SH says my data is bad news and I feel great. Part of this is I am sure you can't base how you feel 100% on your cpap therapy.


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#4
(11-21-2016, 11:28 PM)Lanco Wrote:
(11-21-2016, 07:55 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: The large leak rate on your machine is 24 Lpm, but an acceptable leak is much lower. Download SleepyHead, and I think you will find a wealth of information at your disposal. If you are using My Air, that is pretty close to worthless.

I wonder why Resmed would say that if the leaks are greater than or equal to 24 L/min for LESS than 30% of the night, it's ok and Mr. Green Smiley Face shows up on the info screen to tell you that. I would think they know what they are talking about.
The Resmed engineers had to set a cutoff for Mr. Green Smiley Face somewhere. They chose 30% of the night. My guess is that they realize on the one hand that most people using CPAP are not going to have perfect leak lines, so it's senseless to set the threshold for time in Large Leak significantly lower than 30%. And they do have a pretty good idea of just how bad the leaks have to be before therapy is genuinely ineffective. So my guess is that they settled on 30% as a figure that a typical CPAPer would have little or no trouble meeting night after night, but it's still low enough to catch most people who are doing significant mouth breathing with nasal masks or who are springing serious leaks in FFMs night after night for long periods of time.

Quote:I understand the smaller the numbers here the better off you are but, why such a discrepancy? Where did the developer of SH come up with his version of what's supposed to be good?
SH actually just reads the data and flags any leak that is above 24 L/min in the daily data.

JediMark, the developer of SH, used the 24 L/min line for Resmed machines because ResScan (the Resmed software) draws the Large Leak line at the same level. SH computes the amount of time the leaks are over 24 L/min and reports that to the user. It's up to the user of SH to evaluate whether the amount of time spent in Large Leak territory is "too large" in their mind.

Quote:Maybe some people are more sensitive than others? Some days my numbers look pretty good and I am not with it and other days SH says my data is bad news and I feel great. Part of this is I am sure you can't base how you feel 100% on your cpap therapy.
Yes, some people are more sensitive than others. And there's more to good sleep than a great AHI and a wonderful leak line. If the only way you can get a wonderful leak line is to stay up all night fighting every little leak, you're going to be rested in the morning. If you do a bit of mouth breathing here and there, but never more than 15 or 20 minutes at a time, you may be better off tolerating the leaks than you would be with putting on a chin strap if the chin strap makes it more difficult to fall asleep or stay asleep.

Same thing with the AHI: If you have to have the pressure so high as to trigger aerophagia just to get an AHI < 1.5 every night, but you can easily get an AHI < 3.5 with a pressure setting that doesn't give you aerophagia, you might be much better off in terms of how you feel with the higher AHI and less aerophagia.

Questions about SleepyHead?
See my Guide to SleepyHead
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#5
(11-22-2016, 12:40 AM)robysue Wrote: It's up to the user of SH to evaluate whether the amount of time spent in Large Leak territory is "too large" in their mind.


Actually, on the Welcome page of SH he makes statements about AHI and leaks. Today it said my AHI was reasonably good and went on to say your mask is leaking way too much. Talk to your cpap advisor.

These were my readings:

Average leak rate: 13.53
90% leak rate: 42.00
% of time above leak rate threshold: 21.52

This was the worst reading I've had for leaks so far but I was dead tired which probably had something to do with it. So 21.52 seems high for me and according to Resmeds 24/30 idea it indicates this is ok while SH says it's a bad deal. So he really does tell me what he thinks is good or not.

Now compared to my >30 day average, I'm thinking I shouldn't be too concerned as it seems to me these averages are ok. Or are they?

Average leak rate: 6.18
90% leak rate: 19.20
% of time above leak rate threshold: 6.03

I am also testing out using a humidifier for only a few days and last night I upped it to 4 and wondered if possibly that was affecting why my mouth was open more. Most of the data is kind of flat looking rather than spikes.

So for me being a little puzzled about the differing ideas on leaks I'm considering whether I need to test out my FFM for a week. I tried it once so far using my Apex XT Auto and it brought the leaks down to what would be considered around 0 on the S9 but I also had a higher than normal AHI that night of 3.x. I also realize that it would be hard to tell from one night and can't really know what caused the higher AHI.

Am I a FFM candidate or just use that occasionally if called for?

After 16 years of a constant pressure cpap and purposely letting my mask leak so I didn't feel like I was suffocating I'm just hoping to get things real good and then just kind of let it go. But the uncertainty now is a major thing for me.


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#6
I started out as a non-mouth breather. Then, for some reason, I started mouth breathing. Now I am a part-time mouth breather. I seem to do it more if my nose is a bit stuffy. Having more or less humidity than your body like can result in stuffiness, so there might be a connection there.

I keep a FFM on my dresser for those nights when I wake up with a dry mouth. If I am stuffed up, I just wear it to bed. I am getting to like it.
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#7
(11-21-2016, 11:28 PM)Lanco Wrote: I wonder why Resmed would say that if the leaks are greater than or equal to 24 L/min for LESS than 30% of the night, it's ok and Mr. Green Smiley Face shows up on the info screen to tell you that. I would think they know what they are talking about.

It all depends on your definition of "ok".

Leak statistics have limited utility.

Look at your leak rate graph. You want it low and smooth. If it's bouncing up and down that's an indication of a problem.

Adjust the mask or change masks. If you're using a nasal mask try a chin strap. If that doesn't work try a full face masks.

Your insurance regulations and your equipment provider is expecting you to have to make several mask switches to find the right one.
Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#8
Wish it was that easy but I don't have insurance. I am eligible for Medicare next year. Thanx for input.
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#9
(11-22-2016, 02:17 PM)Lanco Wrote: Wish it was that easy but I don't have insurance. I am eligible for Medicare next year. Thanx for input.

Even with insurance it's not easy.

Masks can be purchased online economically.
Sleepster
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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