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Leaks are so confusing...
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FrankNichols Offline

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Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #1
Leaks are so confusing...
I am trying to get my "leaks" under control before getting to pysc'd about my AHI (AHI running around 6.5 to 8.5 right now). I thought simple things first - yeah, right.

My problem is, I don't know what I am looking at while trying to interpret the charts in SH. I have read numerous places that the AirSense subtracts the intentional leak (vent) from the reported leak rate based on the mask specified. So, if that is true and if I have a perfect seal (I know I won't) then I would expect the leak rate to be around/at 0.

My FFM (F10) in two weeks of testing stayed mostly around 8, ignoring the unintentional leaks when I flopped on my side etc. However, one day with a bit of fiddling and strap adjusting, etc, it stayed at about zero (0) all night.

Now, I have been trying a P10 Nasal Mask for about a week. I set the mask to nasal in the clinical settings and every day it seems to hover around 10 (except for when it goes crazy because of my flopping around and/or I am mouth breathing).

These numbers are looking at the chart in SH. I see the same thing in the chart in Rescan.

So, what should be the normal leak rate base line if I have no unintentional leaks in SH? 0 L/M?
8L/M for F10
10L/M for P10?

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2016 12:41 PM by FrankNichols.)
04-25-2016 12:40 PM
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Crimson Nape Offline

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Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Other
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CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments: CMS-50F & 50IW

Sex: Male
Location: Georgia

Post: #2
RE: Leaks are so confusing...
(04-25-2016 12:40 PM)FrankNichols Wrote:  Now, I have been trying a P10 Nasal Mask for about a week. I set the mask to nasal in the clinical settings and every day it seems to hover around 10 (except for when it goes crazy because of my flopping around and/or I am mouth breathing).

The P10 is set to "Pillows" in the setting. The "Nasal" is for the mask that looks like a mini-FFM and covers only the nose.

I hope this may help.

Statistics prove that people who have more birthdays live longer.
04-25-2016 12:50 PM
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PoolQ Offline

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Machine: AirCurve 10 VAUTO
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Amara View
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CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Sillicon Valley

Post: #3
RE: Leaks are so confusing...
if you have two traces on the SH leak chart the highest trace is the unadjusted rate (includes vent) and the lower trace is the actual calculated leak rate. Yes it "should" be at zero. There are only two requirements 1. whatever it is doing, can you sleep through it? 1. is the adjusted leak rate less than what the Airsense can compensate for (24 L/M) if you meet both of these then it does not really matter.

The lower the better, but working is working. 8-10 leak rate is okay and not effecting your treatment. If you get to zero, then good on you, if not don't sweat it too much
04-25-2016 01:01 PM
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FrankNichols Offline

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Posts: 714
Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #4
RE: Leaks are so confusing...
(04-25-2016 01:01 PM)PoolQ Wrote:  if you have two traces on the SH leak chart the highest trace is the unadjusted rate (includes vent) and the lower trace is the actual calculated leak rate. Yes it "should" be at zero. There are only two requirements 1. whatever it is doing, can you sleep through it? 1. is the adjusted leak rate less than what the Airsense can compensate for (24 L/M) if you meet both of these then it does not really matter.

The lower the better, but working is working. 8-10 leak rate is okay and not effecting your treatment. If you get to zero, then good on you, if not don't sweat it too much

Thanks, I only have 1 trace. I am sort of OCD and just want to understand what I am seeing. I do have issues with large leaks and I am learning how to control them, while doing that I feel a burning desire to understand what I am looking at Smile

(04-25-2016 12:50 PM)Crimson Nape Wrote:  
(04-25-2016 12:40 PM)FrankNichols Wrote:  Now, I have been trying a P10 Nasal Mask for about a week. I set the mask to nasal in the clinical settings and every day it seems to hover around 10 (except for when it goes crazy because of my flopping around and/or I am mouth breathing).

The P10 is set to "Pillows" in the setting. The "Nasal" is for the mask that looks like a mini-FFM and covers only the nose.

I hope this may help.

Okay, now that is embarrassing! Smile

Thank you very much.

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2016 01:40 PM by FrankNichols.)
04-25-2016 01:39 PM
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palerider Offline

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Posts: 440
Joined: Nov 2014

Machine: s9 vpap auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
Mask Make & Model: p10
Humidifier: none
CPAP Pressure: 18/13+
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Dallas(ish)

Post: #5
RE: Leaks are so confusing...
if your mask is sealed properly, and you're not having leaks, then the leak line will read zero.

anything above that, and you're experiencing excess leakage, even if you don't know where it's coming from.

and confirming, the P10 is a pillow mask... it's pretty handy, P(illow)10, N(asal)10, F(ullface)10.

example night with a P10 on a resmed machine:
[Image: 5ILEOt9l.png]
04-25-2016 01:47 PM
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FrankNichols Offline

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Posts: 714
Joined: Mar 2016

Machine: AirSense 10 Autoset
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed F10 and/or P10
Humidifier: Builtin
CPAP Pressure: 17-19
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead Other Software

Other Comments: I've figured out how to get my AHI down to 5, I quit sleeping!

Sex: Male
Location: Live Oak, Florida

Post: #6
RE: Leaks are so confusing...
(04-25-2016 01:47 PM)palerider Wrote:  if your mask is sealed properly, and you're not having leaks, then the leak line will read zero.

anything above that, and you're experiencing excess leakage, even if you don't know where it's coming from.

and confirming, the P10 is a pillow mask... it's pretty handy, P(illow)10, N(asal)10, F(ullface)10.

example night with a P10 on a resmed machine:
[Image: 5ILEOt9l.png]

Thank you, I should have noticed the letter - lol... And yes, I finally got my F10 down to "idling" at zero with a few minor bumps here and there. Now I want to see if I can do the same with the P10. It has been idling at 10, which is explained by the setting being wrong!

I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
04-25-2016 01:56 PM
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Snowbird47 Offline

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Machine: AirSenseâ„¢ 10 AutoSet CPAP Machine with HumidAirâ„¢ Heated Humidifier
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Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
Humidifier: integrated, climateline hose
CPAP Pressure: 11 - 14.6
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: USA

Post: #7
RE: Leaks are so confusing...
(04-25-2016 01:01 PM)PoolQ Wrote:  if you have two traces on the SH leak chart the highest trace is the unadjusted rate (includes vent) and the lower trace is the actual calculated leak rate. Yes it "should" be at zero. There are only two requirements 1. whatever it is doing, can you sleep through it? 1. is the adjusted leak rate less than what the Airsense can compensate for (24 L/M) if you meet both of these then it does not really matter.

I also only have ONE trace on the SH leak chart - why is that, and how do you get two (I can find no way to do that in preferences)?
04-26-2016 09:03 AM
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PaytonA Offline
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Machine: ResMed S9 VPAP Auto
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CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

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Location: Orange County,California

Post: #8
RE: Leaks are so confusing...
To my knowledge the Resmed machines only give one trace because the machine reports only the estimated unintentional leak. Sleepyhead gives a dual leak trace for PR machines where the PR machine reports Total leak.

Best Regards,

PaytonA
04-26-2016 01:10 PM
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palerider Offline

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Machine: s9 vpap auto
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
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CPAP Pressure: 18/13+
CPAP Software: SleepyHead

Other Comments:

Sex: Male
Location: Dallas(ish)

Post: #9
RE: Leaks are so confusing...
(04-25-2016 01:56 PM)FrankNichols Wrote:  Now I want to see if I can do the same with the P10. It has been idling at 10, which is explained by the setting being wrong!

I'm afraid that doesn't explain anything.

some people believe (erroneously in my studied opinion) that the mask setting on the resmed machines has something to do with the excess leak calculation, however, when you look at the stated leak rates for the three masks in question:

f10: 22lpm@4cm, 41@12, 54@20
n10: 20lpm@4cm, 37@12, 49@20
p10: 20lpm@4cm, 37@12, 49@20

that theory kinda loses some credence. plus, even if there was something to it, the difference between n10 and p10 is... well, you see above.

evidence points to the mask setting being used the same way system one resistance is, to better compensate for the resistance to flow that the different masks have,
(1.0, 1.2, and 1.4cm @ 100lpm, respectively)

if this theory is right, setting the machine for nasal when you have a pillow mask would result in very slightly lower pressure at the mask than at the correct setting.

the mask type setting is also used in helping the machine detect mask off for the smartstart auto start/auto stop. the first time I put a p10 on my machine, I was dismayed that the machine didn't stop running when I took the mask off. after saying "ahah" and changing the setting from full to pillow, smart start works perfectly.


(04-26-2016 09:03 AM)Snowbird47 Wrote:  
Quote:if you have two traces on the SH leak chart the highest trace is the unadjusted rate (includes vent) and the lower trace is the actual calculated leak rate. Yes it "should" be at zero. There are only two requirements 1. whatever it is doing, can you sleep through it? 1. is the adjusted leak rate less than what the Airsense can compensate for (24 L/M) if you meet both of these then it does not really matter.

I also only have ONE trace on the SH leak chart - why is that, and how do you get two (I can find no way to do that in preferences)?

this is what happens when people post without figuring out what they're posting about, sadly.... confusion.

respironics machines report *total* leak rate, sleepyhead makes a guess as to what the excess leak rate is, and creates a second, lower trace, for respironics machines.

resmed machines report *excess* leak, so there's only one trace.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2016 02:00 PM by palerider.)
04-26-2016 01:56 PM
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Mosquitobait Offline

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Other Comments: RLS and Bradycardia

Sex: Female
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Post: #10
RE: Leaks are so confusing...
I'm trying to figure out how to tell if my leaks are from my mouth being open or if my Swift is simply leaking too much. How do you tell from the data?
04-26-2016 01:59 PM
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