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Legal liability for not using the CPAP machine
#11
(08-06-2016, 05:53 PM)FrankNichols Wrote: Well, I understand the question, but I question the question. Wouldn't a better question be, would the person be morally responsible driving with a known compromising medical condition and falling asleep and killing a bus load of children - regardless of how unlikely it might be?

Well, some people don't like to be moralized at. Some don't want to deal with reason or facts or science. Some of these people might get on CPAP if they thought it would make them lose their job not to, and although I agree myself that this is a lousy reason it is still better for them to be on *PAP than not be. Everybody gets to choose their own morality but not (directly at least) the laws that apply to them. In the end it's their decision and they reap the consequences of their choice.


Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

Your brain is not the boss.

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#12
Or, translation: "You pays your money, and you takes your choice."
IDK whom to attribute that quote to.
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#13
I think that his doctor has a duty to inform the motor vehicle authority if they are aware that one of their patients is a danger to drive. That likely depends on the severity of his sleep Apnea. I doubt that risking others lives is a viable option.
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#14
(08-06-2016, 11:05 PM)chill Wrote: I think that his doctor has a duty to inform the motor vehicle authority if they are aware that one of their patients is a danger to drive. That likely depends on the severity of his sleep Apnea. I doubt that risking others lives is a viable option.


Ahh... but suspicion and proof one has a medical condition that should preclude hen from driving are two completely different things.

There are many people driving with narcolepsy.
Warning: Eating chocolate may cause your clothes to shrink!
[Image: ry6XtE9.gif] <---- That's ME!
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#15
I am not speaking of suspicion. Doctors do it for elderly drivers they consider unsafe. Many jurisdictions prohibit driving with untreated sleep apnea above a certain cutoff. There is a difference between driving with sleep apnea when you have no idea that you have it (guilty!) and when you know that you do have it should not be driving unless it is treated. The latter is culpable the same as drinking and driving.
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#16
In California, if a professional truck driver with known sleep apnea caused an accident based on being fatigued and not using a xPAP, that might be argued as culpable negligence (recklessly acting without "reasonable" caution and putting another person at risk of injury or death) which proportionately contributed to the accident. You may wish to read "Defending Sleep Apnea Claims in Trucking Litigation" which can be found at http://www.butler.legal/files/Zivitz.pdf.

As for a civilian with a non-commercial license, would it be any different if a person failed to take their medicine, had a seizure, and was the proximate cause of an accident? In the final analysis, it all depends on who has the deepest pockets and the best attorneys.

It is also a cautionary tale for those whose compliance is remotely tracked, stored, or recorded by vendors or physicians. Or even self-recording that could be produced during discovery. Look to see a spate of "black box" subpoenas during discovery as vehicles become personal recorders of driving events and behaviors. Already some insurance companies are providing discounts for those people who allow the insurance company to monitor their behavior. I see trouble ahead.

Best advice. Make sure your sleep doctor is a lawyer and your pertinent records are privileged as attorney-client work products. Works for Hillary Clinton, it might work for you.
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
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#17
"In the final analysis, it all depends on who has the deepest pockets and the best attorney"

And that is the sad summary of our legal system today, notice I did not say Justice System...
I am not a Medical professional and I don't play one on the internet.
Started CPAP Therapy April 5, 2016
I'd Rather Be Sleeping
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#18
(08-07-2016, 02:38 AM)srlevine1 Wrote: http://www.butler.legal/files/Zivitz.pdf. should be
http://www.butler.legal/files/Zivitz.pdf

The link above fails because there's a period at the end of the link

http://www.butler.legal/files/Zivitz.pdf
Warning: Eating chocolate may cause your clothes to shrink!
[Image: ry6XtE9.gif] <---- That's ME!
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#19
My take is that driving is a privilege, not a right.

When you drive you take other people's lives into your hands and no one has a "right" to do that. It is privilege contingent upon the ability to drive responsibly and safely. "Innocent until proven guilty" does not apply when it comes to driving, and it shouldn't be. You have to prove your ability in order to be allowed to drive on public roads just about everywhere, and that is as it should be.

If a Medical Doctor becomes aware that it is dangerous for you to drive because of a medical condition then they have a moral obligation to report this to the relevant authorities. Also, nearly everywhere they also have a *legal* obligation. Since they are not perfect and being humans do make mistakes, there are nearly always provisions for appealing, as there should be.

Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

Your brain is not the boss.

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#20
It seems most if not all of us are mostly in various degrees of agreement.

As dire as my AHI's were, I never felt impaired and my Dr's always indicated I was alert, responsive, lucid in complete and total control of my faculties.

So I guess with that the question becomes where's the line to be drawn?

Someone else exhibiting my exact characteristics might not present quite the same way...

So to have a hard and fast set of laws like Md. has (Yes I made the mistake of checking the box of being diag'ed with sleep apnea, as my Dr's never reported me) and those pinheads went literally ballistic about every 3 months for several years... wanting boxes of documentation from my poor Dr.

Fortunately, I finally escaped that over legislated state and now haven't any of those problems.

Yes, I'm always aware of when I'm not in good enough condition to make reasonable decisions.
Warning: Eating chocolate may cause your clothes to shrink!
[Image: ry6XtE9.gif] <---- That's ME!
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