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Legionairre's disease as a result of cpap use
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DariaVader Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Legionairre's disease as a result of cpap use
Waterwise 9000 Countertop Distiller? Will you have electricity?

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
Tongue Suck Technique for prevention of mouth breathing:
  • Place your tongue behind your front teeth on the roof of your mouth
  • let your tongue fill the space between the upper molars
  • gently suck to form a light vacuum
Practising during the day can help you to keep it at night

هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه هههههه
04-28-2016 10:14 PM
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MrEGuy Offline

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Post: #12
RE: Legionairre's disease as a result of cpap use
Over here there are also regulations for hot water systems/boilers. They normally have to be taken over 60 deg Celsius every day to prevent Legionairre's disease.

I noticed that the Dream Station features list a dishwasher safe humidifier tank.

The CPAP is basically forcing you to inhale the water in the humidifier tank. Your lungs do not have the same kind of safeguards that you would get from you digestive system if you just drank the water (not that you can drink water with Legionella in it). I am sure that everyone is aware that the air they breath ends up in their blood stream, so good hygiene practices should be used.

Commonsense tells me to keep the CPAP and humidifier at least clean enough to eat off. Better still sterile enough that you could take water from the tank and make a babies bottle from it.
04-28-2016 11:42 PM
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rem52 Offline

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Post: #13
RE: Legionairre's disease as a result of cpap use
Nix on tap water and bottled water is just tap water from far away.
I use distilled only but sometimes that is not convenient.
How long do you have to boil the water to kill everything including spores not just bacteria?
05-01-2016 11:40 AM
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toniko Offline

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Post: #14
RE: Legionairre's disease as a result of cpap use
(05-01-2016 11:40 AM)rem52 Wrote:  Nix on tap water and bottled water is just tap water from far away.
I use distilled only but sometimes that is not convenient.
How long do you have to boil the water to kill everything including spores not just bacteria?

At least 10 minutes, from what I understand.

I only use distilled water, just to be on the safe side.. and I let the machine completely dry out every day after I wake up, wash and rinse the water compartment every 3 days.

[Image: tz8toniko.gif]
05-01-2016 02:42 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Legionairre's disease as a result of cpap use
Boiling even for a single second will kill all germs of the vast majority of illnesses. Most of them will die at considerably lower temperatures, so they'll be killed as the water heats up to boiling. Legionella, in particular, dies almost instantly at 70°C/158°F.

There are a few strains of germs that are more resistant to heat, but they aren't necessarily more dangerous.

Leaving the water at high temp for a longer period increases the number of different kinds of germs that will die, and the greater the percent reduction for the "borderline" germs.

Some strains of germs, such as Botulinum, can survive indefinitely at boiling temperature. You have to use a pressure cooker to get temperatures around 120°C/248°F to kill Botulinum. However, Botulinum germs don't usually harm adults. It's the toxins they produce in spoiled food, not an actual infection.

However, boiling your CPAP water may not help much anyway. If you're using tap water, you're already drinking, bathing, and cooking with that water. You'll be inhaling it every time you take a shower. Even if you do use sterile water, germs in the air will contaminate your CPAP water shortly after your turn your machine on.

Your CPAP is only going to make the problem worse if whatever germs there are in the water or in the room air end up growing in the tank and becoming so numerous that they increase your chance of infection.

Germs can't grow in pure water. They might survive, but they can't multiply because there are no nutrients. As you use your humidifier, whatever contaminants there are that might feed germs become more concentrated as the water evaporates. That's why it's good to dump your water every morning and rinse the tank. Distilled water has fewer contaminants to start with, so there will be less possibility of germ growth. Even with distilled water, there may be some germ food, and dust from the air will contaminate the water over time.

In theory, germs in the humidifier don't get into the air because only water vapor comes out of the tank. The humidifier isn't designed to spray water droplets, only to let the water evaporate from the surface. I'm not convinced this is true 100% of the time, so keep your water tank clean anyway.

Personally, I think the risk of catching something from your CPAP humidifier tank is vanishingly small, but keep it clean anyway. If you're using tap water, it's extra important to dump it every morning.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
05-01-2016 06:53 PM
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holden4th Offline

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Post: #16
RE: Legionairre's disease as a result of cpap use
I had a night away from home last night and before taking my machine with me I emptied the water reservoir. I remember putting the water in about a week ago and I found that this water was rather slimy - not good. I'm leaving the tank dry for a while until I can find out if the humidity system is actually working.

Interestingly enough, my AHI for the first 4 hours (until I woke up, was 0.0) I doubted the result until I looked at the SH results.

I live in a humid environment so maybe I don't need this feature at the moment.

Any thoughts?
05-02-2016 04:06 AM
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green wings Offline

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Post: #17
RE: Legionairre's disease as a result of cpap use
I think you might have to experiment with no humidification to see how it feels to you.

I decided a week or so ago that it might be warm and humid enough now (late spring) where I live that I wouldn't need humidified air. I tried turning off the humidifier for two nights. After the second night, I woke up with uncomfortably dry nasal passages, so I am using the humidifier again.

I got my CPAP machine this past winter. The respiratory therapist that showed me how to use it told me that the humidifier chamber needed washing once a week.

During the winter when my bedroom temperature rarely got above 65 degrees F, that worked fine.

About a month ago, when I went to give the humidifier chamber its weekly cleaning, I noticed that it felt slimy inside, so since then I've gone to dumping out the water every day and letting the chamber air dry then refilling it at night.

I'm not really sure if the humidifier chamber is suddenly getting slimy because the room temperature is higher, or because it's not new any longer.

I have seen recommendations to replace the humidifier chamber every six months. I think I'm going to do that, just because I don't trust plastic surfaces.

(05-02-2016 04:06 AM)holden4th Wrote:  I had a night away from home last night and before taking my machine with me I emptied the water reservoir. I remember putting the water in about a week ago and I found that this water was rather slimy - not good. I'm leaving the tank dry for a while until I can find out if the humidity system is actually working.

Interestingly enough, my AHI for the first 4 hours (until I woke up, was 0.0) I doubted the result until I looked at the SH results.

I live in a humid environment so maybe I don't need this feature at the moment.

Any thoughts?
05-02-2016 04:45 PM
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archangle Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Legionairre's disease as a result of cpap use
(05-02-2016 04:45 PM)green wings Wrote:  I'm not really sure if the humidifier chamber is suddenly getting slimy because the room temperature is higher, or because it's not new any longer.

I have seen recommendations to replace the humidifier chamber every six months. I think I'm going to do that, just because I don't trust plastic surfaces.

Once you get a new tank and have an old one you can part with, if you're concerned with germs in the old tank, do this:

Clean the tank thoroughly. I use the dishwasher. Boil a big pot of water, turn off the heat, then drop the disassembled parts of the old tank into the water. Cover, then let it sit until the water cools.

I like the use of heat like this because you know it will kill germs even in cracks and crevices. Not that boiling temps won't kill ALL species of germs, but gets a large percentage of them.

I've done this myself with many tanks. Only the S9 "non-dishwashable" standard tank has suffered any problems. I've had success with PRS1 50/60 series tanks, S9 dishwashable, REMstar M series and REMstar Legacy tanks. Note that this isn't my normal cleaning process. I've only used it with used tanks or with ones that I'm concerned about for some reason.

I have not tried Dreamstation, AirSense10 or any other manufacturer's tanks.

Also note that the manufacturers do sometimes change the design, including changing the materials used, so don't do this with a tank you can't live without.

Get the free SleepyHead software here.
Useful links.
Click here for information on the main alternative to CPAP.
If it's midnight and a DME tells you it's dark outside, go and check it yourself.
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2016 06:53 PM by archangle.)
05-02-2016 06:52 PM
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tmo1138 Offline

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Post: #19
RE: Legionairre's disease as a result of cpap use
I never thought about legionellosis from the CPAP water tank before. In my case I haven't been as rigorous about keeping my tank clean as I probably should have in the past. But lately I have been much more so using vinegar first and antibacterial soap soak after. I guess I've been lucky over all.

I also found out from my provider that I can get a new tank every 6 months and I might consider doing that (since it's covered by my insurance anyway).

I only used tap water once for about a week and got a sinus infection. Since then I've used distilled water or water from my purifier in my kitchen - it's a 3-stage Reverse Osmosis filtering system.

Also to help with disinfecting I have a SoClean 2 (yes I read the extremely varied opinions on the device here - still opted to buy one) and it does seem to help make a difference. However while SoClean says you can leave the water in the tank I do not. I empty and dry it with cleaner paper towels and put the tank back in the DreamStation so the SoClean has a reasonably closed circuit to run Ozone thru.
05-06-2016 10:13 PM
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KathyV Offline

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Post: #20
RE: Legionairre's disease as a result of cpap use
My husband recently died of legionella's disease. He was 55 years old and had just had recent surgery for a knee replacement. The CDC and the health department researched every place he had been up to 10 days before he became ill and could not find out where he contacted his legionella's.

I wonder if it could have been his Cpap machine. My husband used distilled water, but was not faithful in cleaning or changing his mask and or hoses. I researched online and found several articles where they think there may be a connection between the legionella's and the cpap.

We will probably never know the source of his legionella's but I strongly urge all cpap users to make sure they keep their units clean and disinfected.
08-24-2016 07:38 AM
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