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Lip Leak
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Kladeios Offline

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Post: #1
Lip Leak
I'm trying to switch from a FFM to a nasal mask with chin strap but I'm having trouble with lip leakage during the night. I usually start out the night with my tongue to the roof of my mouth but I'm pretty sure it doesn't stay there for very long once the lights go out.

The chin strap does a good job at keeping my mouth closed. I've been using it along with my FFM for a couple months now so I've gotten used to it. Once the air forces my lips open I start making raspberrys which cause me to wake. Any advice on what works for this besides duct tape/stitches which can be deadly?
02-26-2015 01:52 PM
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PaytonA Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Lip Leak
I fought the lip leak battle but did not win it. Ended up going to a FFM. I think that I tried everything except taping. I hope that you do better than I did.

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PaytonA
02-26-2015 02:47 PM
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retired_guy Offline

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Post: #3
RE: Lip Leak
You really don't want to "force" your mouth to stay shut. So taping, stitches, staples, safety pins, nail guns --- all bad ideas. Lots of side effects.

You do want your chinstrap gently applied in such a way that it simply "encourages" your jaw to stay forward. When that happens, your tongue really doesn't have a whole lot of choice other than to help block your airway.

Also, I put the chinstrap on underneath my mask. That way I don't have to take it off when I get up in the night, and it helps to keep the mask put. Some like it the other way around. Try both and see which you are: an "in-ie" or an "out-ie."

Just keep working with it. You'll figure it out.
02-26-2015 02:49 PM
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Sleeprider Online
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Machine: Resmed Aircurve 10 Vauto
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Post: #4
RE: Lip Leak
Blocking the airway into the mouth is a fundamental skill required for using nasal therapy options. Some people can't do it. You can practice controlling the air by using the machine while awake. Get a feel for how to contain the air by keeping the tongue in place. Most of us get good enough at controlling it that we can talk with the pressure on. Your first experience with that will probably produce some interesting sounds. The point is, the better you can master the pressure and make it natural, the more likely the skill will become subconscious allowing you to sleep.

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02-26-2015 02:55 PM
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Kladeios Offline

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Post: #5
RE: Lip Leak
I did a google search and came up with surgical tape but I fear pulmonary aspiration could kill me in my sleep even if the tape is applied for easy removal. I may give it a try though, even if I just applied enough to stop the lip flutter.
02-26-2015 03:07 PM
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retired_guy Offline

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Post: #6
RE: Lip Leak
(02-26-2015 03:07 PM)Kladeios Wrote:  I did a google search and came up with surgical tape but I fear pulmonary aspiration could kill me in my sleep even if the tape is applied for easy removal. I may give it a try though, even if I just applied enough to stop the lip flutter.

Tape = bad idea waiting to happen.

Do as described to master the technique. Often when we put on the chinstraps it actually drives the jaw backwards instead of coaxing it forwards. Perhaps that's what's going on in your case.
02-26-2015 04:10 PM
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Kladeios Offline

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Post: #7
RE: Lip Leak
First night with moisture resistant surgical tape wasn't too bad. I can still pry my lips apart with the tape so I don't think aspiration would be too much of an issue. It definitely eliminated the lip flutter. I woke up once when there was a small leak but I seemed to sleep a little longer than with the FFM. Let's see how I do on the weekend. I usually have trouble sleeping past 6 am on those days.
02-27-2015 10:41 AM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Lip Leak
The problem is not the leak at the lips. The problem is the leak where your tongue seals against the roof of your mouth. Behind that seal is pressurized air that wants to escape into your mouth. A full face mask raises the pressure in your mouth, eliminating that problem.

Look at your leak graph. If you see extended periods of large leak you know you haven't solved your problem.

If a chin strap doesn't work you can just go back to a full face mask. What's the problem with that option?

I went three years fighting this battle and recently switched to a full face mask. The first one I tried leaked, but not as much as my mouth leaked with the nasal mask. Last week I got a different full face mask and it works great. I finally got my leaks under control. I sleep better. Not great, but better.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
02-27-2015 10:55 AM
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Kladeios Offline

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Machine: ResMed AirSense 10 Elite
Mask Type: Full face mask
Mask Make & Model: F&P Simplus
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CPAP Pressure: 10
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Post: #9
RE: Lip Leak
I've used the FFM for two months and although I'm comfortable with it, I still feel excessively tired during the day. My AHI ranges from 3-5 but on bad days it sometimes can hit up to 9 (probably because I slept on my back). My first full night with my nasal mask and a bit of surgical tape, had my AHI down around 3.6 and even though I got up around 1:30 and it took me about 10 mins to fall asleep again, I feel more rested than I did with the FFM. I'm hoping this isn't just a fluke. We will see. I need to check the Rescan reports to see what went on.
02-27-2015 12:27 PM
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PaulaO2 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Lip Leak
If you are used to the chin strap, check out the PAPcap. What it does is pull the chin and bottom lip up and encourages the lips to stay together. While at the same time, it also presses against the cheeks and helps to prevent them from filling with air. See my review of it here:
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-PAPcap-by-Pur-Sleep

I finally gave up and started trying out FFMs. Yeah, they're a PITA and my AHI is slightly higher with it than with the nasal pillow and chin strap, but I prefer it to the work of putting on everything just to go to bed. We all have a line we are not willing to cross and that was mine I guess.

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
02-27-2015 11:36 PM
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