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Looking for non-CPAP device for occassional use
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Stangman Offline

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Post: #1
Looking for non-CPAP device for occassional use
Hello All -

I am a dedicated CPAP user for the past 2 years and have seen great results. I have moderate to severe OSA. I am looking for a device (ie mouthguard) for use 5-6 days a year. I go away twice a year on boys weekends for fishing and golf and would really like to have something easy to use that does not require electricity. I also hate bringing the CPAP. These trips involve alchohol consumption which certainly makes the OSA worse. Any thoughts or suggestions? I have seen a couple threads regarding SnoreRX.

Thank you for you time.
02-27-2013 01:09 PM
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Ugly Offline

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Post: #2
RE: Looking for non-CPAP device for occassional use
(02-27-2013 01:09 PM)Stangman Wrote:  Hello All -

I am a dedicated CPAP user for the past 2 years and have seen great results. I have moderate to severe OSA. I am looking for a device (ie mouthguard) for use 5-6 days a year.

Rent a generator or a battery pack. Is it really worth it to sacrifice sleep in exchange for a few nights out?
02-27-2013 01:25 PM
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Shastzi Offline

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Post: #3
RE: Looking for non-CPAP device for occassional use
I would get a small travel CPAP & the battery packs of sufficient size with solar panels to recharge with if no generator is present.

Just my 2 cents.

"With ordinary talent and extraordinary perseverance, all things are attainable." - Thomas Foxwell Buxton

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02-27-2013 01:34 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #4
RE: Looking for non-CPAP device for occassional use
If your doctor will give you the Rx, then Provent produces a nose plug that is supposed to be effective. I have heard negative things about it, but Provent is very vocal and even aggressive in their insistence that it works, and it may well, certainly for short term use. So far I have not seen unbiased data released concerning thier product.
02-27-2013 06:23 PM
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jgjones1972 Offline

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Post: #5
RE: Looking for non-CPAP device for occassional use
(02-27-2013 06:23 PM)wilorg Wrote:  If your doctor will give you the Rx, then Provent produces a nose plug that is supposed to be effective. I have heard negative things about it, but Provent is very vocal and even aggressive in their insistence that it works, and it may well, certainly for short term use. So far I have not seen unbiased data released concerning thier product.

Wow, you learn something new every day.

I hadn't heard about Provent before now, but just spent the last few minutes looking into it. Looks interesting.

When I get the time, I'm going to get my Doc to give me an Rx so I can order some. I'm thinking I'll do my own little highly flawed research project:

-One week with data from APAP at current settings (17 -20 cm H2O) and Oximeter and ZEO data while NOT using Provent.

-One week with data from CPAP set at 4 cm H2O and Oximeter and ZEO data while wearing Provent.

-If that week goes well I'll try collecting a week of Oximeter and ZEO data while wearing Provent without any PAP.

I have a big pack of "chin-ups" left over from my "Misadventures in Nasal Interfaces Project" that I can use to keep my mouth closed during the Provent trials.

Of course, this plan is likely to change some depending on how well or poorly things are going and also keeping the reported "acclimation" period in mind. And, of course, I know this little project is highly flawed; but, what do you expect? It's not like I'm getting any research grants for this.

I'm not looking to replace PAP therapy, but if Provent seems to work relatively well, then it would sure be nice to be able to keep a few packs of those in my car, suitcase etc. as a back-up for travel rather than carting a spare PAP machine around as a back-up. Something like Provent would make a nice back-up plan for power outages, emergencies and other unforseen circumstances as well as situations like the one the OP described. That is; if they work. I'm a little skeptical about the claims being made.
02-27-2013 07:53 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #6
RE: Looking for non-CPAP device for occassional use
Provent won't work with a mask of any sort. The higher pressure of a mask would overwhelm the nasal plugs completely, near as I can tell. Your mouth would automatically take over. I don't know if your system can read out nasal vs mouth inhalation or exhalation, so there is no way to ensure what your tendency is.

What counts here will be your sO2sats - if you desaturate below 89% wearing the Provent (and I think you need more than a week to be sure, unless the data is overwhelming in the first few days), then it doesn't work for you. Equally, if you are at least partly a mouth breather (and I must assume you are for wearing a full face mask) Provent won't work, because it is designed only for nose breathers. Mixed breathers get no benefit, because if the back breath from a nasal exhalation is too uncomfortable, the mouth will open and take over, and that defeats the method that Provent uses (as it would if you used a nasal CPAP mask). So you would have to be sure that your mouth guard prevents you from expelling air in any way.

Additionally, I have my doubts it would work if the pressures you use are necessary for maintaining a clear breathing passage, although it might work for lower pressures.

Still, if you do go ahead, please pm me all the data, I want to see it and make a clear evaluation of it. In fact, it would be a neat idea if some of our US readers would all give it a try - I could work out a relatively simple protocol, we can make the evaluation and see if it is in fact an alternative, at least for vacation or back up use. It'll cost you I think $60 for a trial pack.
02-27-2013 08:36 PM
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Sleepster Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Looking for non-CPAP device for occassional use
Provent and dental appliances (two entirely different things) are not as successful as CPAP therapy for the treatment of OSA. No surprise there. If I recall correctly, the effectiveness diminishes with the severity of the OSA. The OP has moderate to severe OSA, so I doubt either of these would be effective.

Dental appliances work by forcing the lower jaw forward decreasing, in some cases, the likelihood that the airway will collapse.

Provent is like a bandaid that you stick on the bottom of each nostril. It let's air in when you inhale, but restricts the flow of air when you exhale. The idea here is that you build up the pressure in your lungs which helps keep the airway from collapsing.

(02-27-2013 01:09 PM)Stangman Wrote:  I go away twice a year on boys weekends for fishing and golf and would really like to have something easy to use that does not require electricity. I also hate bringing the CPAP. These trips involve alchohol consumption which certainly makes the OSA worse.

You have a Philips-Respironics machine. These machines run on 12 volts DC. You can get a pair of adapter cords that will allow you to run your CPAP machine directly off a car battery. If you turn the humidifier off you'll have no problems running out of juice. Bring along jumper cables just in case. If you really want to be prepared, bring along an extra car battery. They cost about the same as a case of beer!

Here's the thing. Do you really want to run the risk of ruining your fun on these trips feeling like crap because you can't get a decent night's sleep? If you think hangovers from alcohol consumption are bad, try the combination of a hangover from both alcohol and OSA!

Sleepster
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02-27-2013 09:26 PM
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trish6hundred Offline

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Post: #8
RE: Looking for non-CPAP device for occassional use
Hi Stangman,
WELCOME! to the forum.
Continue to be a dedicated CPAP user and get a battery, why spoil a good thing?
Just a thought.

trish6hundred
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2013 02:32 PM by trish6hundred.)
02-27-2013 09:45 PM
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aehjr Offline

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Post: #9
RE: Looking for non-CPAP device for occassional use
(02-27-2013 01:09 PM)Stangman Wrote:  I have moderate to severe OSA. I am looking for a device (ie mouthguard) for use 5-6 days a year. I go away twice a year on boys weekends for fishing and golf and would really like to have something easy to use that does not require electricity.

While I agree with the other posters who suggested bringing a 12 v battery (I've done that for years while camping and using the CPAP), there is a device that is a sort of suction cup with ears (think Mickey Mouse hat) that attaches to your tongue. The device holds your tongue out a bit from the back of your throat and (supposedly) prevents you from having obstructive apnea. I don't remember the name; I bought one from New Zealand years ago but could never get used to it. Every time I started to fall asleep, I'd gag from having my tongue pulled out. Hence buying the CPAP battery. That being said, I have a colleague who swears by the device; says it took him two weeks to get used to it but once he did, it worked great.
02-27-2013 10:05 PM
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jgjones1972 Offline

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Post: #10
RE: Looking for non-CPAP device for occassional use
Hmmm, I hadn't thought about the 4 cm H2O from the PAP causing complications. I think I'll scrap that part. Oximetry and ZEO data should be enough.

The info. on the vendor website I checked out states that mouth breathers should use a chin strap. If necessary, I can use one of those; but I'm thinking the "chin-ups" should curtail mouth breathing. I will use nightly saline rinse and a room humidifier to try to combat sinus problems. One of the most frustrating things about my failure in trying to use nasal interfaces is that with my full face mask and the humidifier set at maximum, I breath exclusively through my nose. The obstacle I couldn't overcome with nasal interfaces was that the therapy pressure escaped through my lips - I wasn't really "mouth breathing" I just had a continuous stream of therapy pressure escaping through my flapping lips. This, of course, just confirms another point you made - my high pressure needs are probably going to be very problematic. As it is, my pressure range is 17 - 20 and average is 18.8. My average AHI at this pressure range is .3 (most nights I just have one or two 10 to 12 second hypopneas) and on the 3 nights I've worn my oximeter since I raised my minimum pressure from 16 to 17 my oxygen saturation never dropped below 96%. While I'm really happy with these numbers, I could probably get by, in a pinch, with less pressure. I'm not sure what pressure I would need to just keep my oxygen saturation above 89%, so I think it still might be worthwhile to give Provent a shot. ZEO data will be usefull also, because I want to be sure I am able to reach NREM3 and REM sleep stages - O2 saturation isn't the only concern. I really don't think there is any chance that Provent will be as effective as my current PAP therapy, but think there might be a chance that it would be effective enough to use in a pinch; so I guess that will be what I will try to find out.

The supplier I'm looking at doesn't carry the 10 day starter pack. They sell the 30 day supply for $75 US.
02-27-2013 10:15 PM
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