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Low T? [Testosterone]
#11
RE: Low T? [Testosterone]
If you want to visit a forum more focused on TRT (and other men's hormonal issues including thyroid, etc.), I suggest excelmale.com. There are a great group of moderators and regulars over there, including physicians. It reminds me a lot of this forum, with members providing advice and recommendations based on blood results, etc.

Another common thread is just as the regulars here recommend being a strong advocate for youreslf when dealing with doctors and DME providers for sleep apnea issues, the same is true there. Unfortunately, a large percentage of doctors are woefully uneducated when it comes to hormonal issues, and either fail to properly identify them or prescribe outdated protocols that are likely to lead one down a path of misery.
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#12
RE: Low T? [Testosterone]
I would also add that 340 ng/dL for someone in their early thiries is on the low side, notwithstanding being "in range." Whether to treat with TRT should involve consideration of your symptoms and testing of other hormones, especially free T, estradiol (sensitive), SHBG, LH, and thyroid markers at a minimum. At 33, you don't want to start TRT unless it's a last resort. You probably also want to be tested for sleep apnea, as there is a lot of overlap in the symptoms of low T and sleep apnea.

Excelmale also has a lot of info on clomid therapy as a means to "restart" your natural production. It didn't work well for me (numbers improved but symptoms remained), but many have had success (under a knowledgeable physician's care obviously).
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#13
RE: Low T?
(09-18-2017, 08:18 PM)AlanE Wrote:
(09-18-2017, 03:50 PM)Spy Car Wrote:  "Normal" isn't optimal and at 330 a 33-year-old is neither "normal" or optimal. 

No one can back that statement up with any facts.

They can't?

It would be very simple to find the "normal" range of a 33 year old male, and it isn't 330. Such a score is abnormal.

And if a person is suffering from the well-established symptoms of hypogonadism is unlikely to be optimal score either. There is a lot of first-class recent research backing TRT for patients that are suffering symptoms when their testosterone is in the "low normal" range.

Bill
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#14
RE: Low T? [Testosterone]
Hello Friends,

I did check my free testosterone and it came back in normal range but it was 'only' 9.3 (8.7−25.1). I am 33...Any suggestions?? My doctor wants me to try some supplements such as fish oil and see if that helps. I read that DHEA may help with that. Did anybody try that?
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#15
RE: Low T? [Testosterone]
Hello,

I know this is an older thread but I would like to update on my situation. I had my testosterone tested and 2 more times and both came below the normal range including total, free.
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, LC/MS/MS was  194    (250-1100 ng/dL)
FREE TESTOSTERONE was  29.4     (35.0-155.0 pg/mL )

The specialist that I have seen wanted me to start TRT right away but I convinced her to try clomid first. She suggested 25 mg every other day. So far it has been only one week so I can't tell if it is working. Any suggestions?? Does any one of you tried Clomid? As a reminder, I am only 33 years old.
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#16
RE: Low T? [Testosterone]
You may need to start testing luteinizing hormone LH and follicle stimulating hormone FSH as well as total T. The balance of these hormones can determine fertility, and when properly balanced with T is the ideal approach for men still concerned with fertility. I am looking forward to hearing more about your results on Clomid. Your test results are fairly close to what mine were prior to treatment. I also found the gels are not only ridiculously expensive, but ineffective. If you do supplement, consider the predictable results of T-cypionate, which doesn't pose any contact risks to your wife or children. It's not too bad if you specify SC injection with 5/8" #27 needles rather than IM with the scary long ones.
Sleeprider
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#17
RE: Low T? [Testosterone]
(01-22-2018, 04:04 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: You may need to start testing luteinizing hormone LH and follicle stimulating hormone FSH as well as total T. The balance of these hormones can determine fertility, and when properly balanced with T is the ideal approach for men still concerned with fertility.  I am looking forward to hearing more about your results on Clomid.  Your test results are fairly close to what mine were prior to treatment.  I also found the gels are not only ridiculously expensive, but ineffective.  If you do supplement, consider the predictable results of T-cypionate, which doesn't pose any contact risks to your wife or children.  It's not too bad if you specify SC injection with 5/8" #27 needles rather than IM with the scary long ones.

Thank You for our reply. Yes I had FSH and LH checked and these were in normal range however according to the doctor should be much higher looking at my T level. She also send me for MRI to rule out some kind of tumor. If I decide on TRT I will most likely inject. As you said gels can be very expensive and don't always work. Whats the range you are in right now?
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#18
RE: Low T? [Testosterone]
500-600 using 0.40 cc (80 mg)/week (2000 mg/10 mL vile). I guess I'm using 25 ga x 5/8" 1-cc syringes. If I bump dose to .5 cc/wk it tends to put me in the 700-800 range which is more than I need at my age.
Sleeprider
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____________________________________________
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#19
RE: Low T?
(09-19-2017, 11:07 AM)Spy Car Wrote:
(09-18-2017, 08:18 PM)AlanE Wrote:
(09-18-2017, 03:50 PM)Spy Car Wrote:  "Normal" isn't optimal and at 330 a 33-year-old is neither "normal" or optimal. 

No one can back that statement up with any facts.

They can't?

It would be very simple to find the "normal" range of a 33 year old male, and it isn't 330. Such a score is abnormal.


There are different ways of defining what is "normal".  One commonly used definition of normal, when it comes to hormone levels, is where 95% of the general population falls.  But that's just one way.  Most laboratory normal ranges would in fact place 330 as normal for a 33 yo.

It's very tricky when you start talking about "low normal" vs "normal normal" for a hormone like testosterone.  For testosterone to have an effect in the body, it must detach from blood protein, be transported into the tissue where it will act (eg, muscle), be transported into a cell, bind to a receptor, recruit molecular cofactors, sit on DNA, allowing for other molecules to alter the DNA, resulting in a change in mRNA production, which in turn has to be translated to protein, which then has to avoid degradation in order to have an action.

That is an over-simplified overview of hormone action.  The point is that every one of those steps has an efficiency which differs from one person to another, so the the amount of hormone in the blood is a very poor gauge of how much effect you are getting out of that hormone.  One 33 yo man could have a T level of 330 while another 33 yo man could have a T level of 660, and if the first man's body is twice as responsive to testosterone as the second man's, then functionally they have the same T effect.

Sometimes it's obvious.  A 33 yo man with a history of chemo treatment at a young age, small testes, a T level of 330, and a high LH definitely has low T.  A 50 yo man with liver disease could have a T level of 500, a very high SHBG, a high LH, and also have low T (despite the T level of 500).  Other times it's very tricky.  What we lack is a good, reliable bioassay of testosterone action, something analogous to the role that TSH plays in gauging thyroid hormone action.

The other thing that makes this difficult is that the T blood test is not a very good one.  Results from the same person vary greatly depending on what lab you use, the time of day, which day you choose, which week you choose, whether you eat carbs before the blood draw, etc.  This is why most experts currently recommend at three early AM blood draws, preferably fasting, each draw at least a week apart from one another, prior to consideration of testosterone therapy. Even then, a lot of men who are low on three draws will test normal 6 months later without any intervention.

Lastly, a lot of the putative benefits of testosterone therapy are unproven.  In many studies, testosterone and placebo have similar benefits on measures such as mood, energy, and even erections in older men.  I'm not saying that T treatment is bunk.  A lot of people benefit from it.  But a lot of people are treated with T without good reason. 

It sounds like the OP is working with a specialist who is doing the appropriate evaluation.  Best wishes.
-Amin
Nothing I say on the forum should be taken as medical advice.
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#20
RE: Low T? [Testosterone]
Shin, I have a question for you. I had a severe case of Lyme's in 2013 that was manifested both physically and neurologically. I received several large series of IV antibiotics, ending in about September. In April 2014, I was still feeling fatigued, and had testing done, where my T-level was at 181 mg/dL, and a subsequent test at 192 following a trial on Androgel, at which point I began injections in August 2014. The question is, how much could that illness or antibiotic regimen have affected my results (low T), and do you think it would be worth withdrawing and testing again?
Sleeprider
Apnea Board Moderator
www.ApneaBoard.com

____________________________________________
Download OSCAR Software
Soft Cervical Collar
Optimizing Therapy
Organize your OSCAR Charts
Attaching Files
Mask Primer
How To Deal With Equipment Supplier


INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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