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Measles -- vacinate old people?
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Post: #41
RE: Measles -- vacinate old people?
(05-16-2015 01:31 AM)archangle Wrote:  
(05-16-2015 01:21 AM)me50 Wrote:  I didn't get vaccinated this year because they said that the flu vaccine would not help against the strain that was going around this year.

If someone actually told you that, they're an idiot.

What they did say was that there were some strains in the wild that weren't covered by that year's vaccine. The vaccine still covered several strains of flu that were either out there or could spread that year.

Think of it as being like a bullet proof vest. This year's vest doesn't cover as much of your body as last year's vest, but it still covers part of your body.

Correct. However, I think I would not call that person an idiot. I think the information was correct, no yearly flu vaccine covers the latest strain, although it covers all the current strains, and in that sense you are not protected, but you are protected from all other strains going about. I get the impression that me50 misunderstood the implications of the simple statement "it does not cover the new strain going about'. It should have been better explained.
05-16-2015 04:54 AM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #42
RE: Measles -- vacinate old people?
(05-16-2015 01:21 AM)me50 Wrote:  I didn't get vaccinated this year because they said that the flu vaccine would not help against the strain that was going around this year. But, I also don't go out where there are a lot of people very often and certainly don't if I am sick. I just got off an antibiotic (CIPRO) which I absolutely hate taking and avoid it at all costs. It is a miserable antibiotic. I slept a lot at first and then got insomnia. You can't have calcium within a certain time frame and most everything has calcium in it and no caffeine, etc. etc. and it made it hard to eat anything. I didn't have the flu though.

No one gets the flu every year (actually, I knew someone who did, and she actually lived to 92, but don't let that encourage you not to get a shot).

Sorry to hear about the CIPRO, yeah it is a bitch and I hate to prescribe it. In fact I usually avoid doing that if I can. But sometimes there is no choice. Antibiotics will do nothing against flus, or even colds for that matter, so don't ever take them unless it is something that is confirmed to handled with an antibiotic. US doctors give out antibiotics like candy and it is creating superbugs and strains that are threatening to kill a lot of people. Us European doctors have never like that tendency in the US and warned about it for years, and now it is creating havoc. If we don't develop new antibiotics soon a lot of people will be harmed, but there is little incentive for drug companies to do so, as they make no money out of them (because new antibiotics are held in reserve for years, even decades before being put into circulation so that new resistant strains don't develop).
(05-16-2015 01:21 AM)me50 Wrote:  I did have a pneumonia shot 3 or 4 years ago and that was the first one I ever had and the first time a doc told me about it. I never concerned myself with measles shot after 50 because I was told measles was under control but is it really? People still get measles so it may not be like it used to be but people still get measles. We all had the measles and only one of us had the mumps and that sibling had to be hospitalized.
Measles is about as under control as it could be expected to be, which is sort of a lid kept on a boiling pot. More or less having had it as a child inoculates you until you are round 50, after that you are vulnerable again. Actually true of most inoculations from childhood.
(05-16-2015 01:21 AM)me50 Wrote:  We just get too comfortable sometimes and some of us have experienced bad doctoring (I know I have and with HMO's, PPO's and medicare dictating coverages and what docs get paid, docs schedule appointments every 10 minutes and rush patients through like cattle here).
When there was a national vote on introducing HMO models here in the insurance it was roundly declined. No one wanted it, even though we have insurance models that are similar in some respects. But doctors seeing patients as rapidly as possible is everywhere and not dictated by financial pressure alone - even in Switzerland we need more GPs. Here, btw, we have a 15 minute limit for basic billing (we then charge per extra 5 minutes), but most patients can be seen and dealt with in 5 to 10 minutes.
(05-16-2015 01:21 AM)me50 Wrote:  Personally, I don't think saying hateful things to anyone is going to solve anything. It is very disrespectful and bothersome when we are all here for the good of each other and to help each other.
Sorry about that, but I get really angry at people who say just because they don't see it then doctors are running a scam and the like.
(05-16-2015 01:21 AM)me50 Wrote:  I am more inclined to accept what the doc says but I am not always that willing to trust what I am told. To ME, what he said makes sense to me.
I am sure your doctor also told you then that your inoculations fade as you age. Not all do, but measles and others do. I doubt he said to not get the flu shot, but said that this year's new strain is not covered and left it up to you. It is more or less the standard way to say it, but I wish we would say (and yes, it is the fault of the doc for not being as clear as possible, we forget that patients don't always fill in the blanks we leave) that there are still a ton of other strains out there that will pop up again this year and you may wish to be protected from those, particularly the strain that was new last year and not in last year's vaccine (it is always a sort of rear guard action, alas).
05-16-2015 05:24 AM
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Post: #43
RE: Measles -- vacinate old people?
Careful now, you're scaring the sheep I mean 'patients' by citing 100 year-old cases. I don't recall saying I never "got sick" I said I never got the flu. Not all sick is the flu. I determine if I have flu the SAME way you doctors tell, by symptoms. Oh wait, I'm not a doctor so I can't do that myself. I've never had the flu and never had a flu shot. Am I lucky? if I had this kind of luck I wouldn't have apnea. I would be kicking back on the beach a retired lottery winner. I am against flu vaccinations. I really don't care how you feel about them. If you want to dupe and infect the public with false data and intimidation, you go right ahead and don't get me started on re-vaccinating people with the same strain they used last year. Sorry Docwils - respectfully - you don't know me and that makes me more of an expert on me than you.



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05-16-2015 06:16 AM
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Post: #44
RE: Measles -- vacinate old people?
I have never had a doc tell me that I should be re-vaccinated for some of my childhood vaccinations. In the states, the big deal about vaccinations is not to vaccinate children as it causes many health issues. I have trouble believing that as when I grew up, we all had to be vaccinated before we could start school and I don't know of anyone that had medical issues (long-term) like is being claimed today. I do know of a case of a child that was really sick (I was an adult by this time) and the young parents took their child repeatedly to the doctor and subsequently their child died. Why? Because the child had chicken pox but they were internal and somehow it got missed until it was too late. Years ago, I got bitten by an akita and I remember when I was at the ER, the doc made sure he gave me a tetanus shot. Never really understood that one. Yea, I chose not to get the flu vaccine because I was told it didn't cover the strain that was prevalent this year but was not told that it covered other strains. I just figured that the strain that wasn't covered was the one that was making everyone sick this year and that the other strains just weren't happening this year. The only thing that I won't do is take a flu shot from a live virus. The last time I got a flu shot, I got sick not long after that and you know how our minds sometimes work and I blamed it on the flu shot even though that was pretty dumb because it was not a live virus in the shot. I will do things differently at the end of this year.
05-16-2015 11:50 AM
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Post: #45
RE: Measles -- vacinate old people?
me50: You must be younger than I. When I started school in 1952, there were no vaccination requirements.
The schools did offer a vaccine program to students; and IIRC, it required an opt-in signature from parents.
I started school prior to the Salk polio vaccine being available. We were given that vaccine when it became available.
At the time, Polio was a terrible disease; and, either you knew a person who had polio; or, you knew secondhand of a person who had it.

I assume you have never served in the armed forces. I recall being herded like cattle down a line where needless injection guns were used to administer 4 vaccines at once. They were so busy processing men for the Vietnam War, I was pulled out of line and put behind a microscope to do blood typing from slides taken by finger stick. Refusing a vaccine was an offense under the UCMJ.

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(This post was last modified: 05-16-2015 01:01 PM by justMongo.)
05-16-2015 01:00 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #46
RE: Measles -- vacinate old people?
Alan,

If you never once had a flu you were either very lucky or you had it but never realised it - not all flus show strong symptoms, and some are completely asymptomatic. The general list of symptoms just cover the larger variety of mid-level cases.
05-16-2015 02:19 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Post: #47
RE: Measles -- vacinate old people?
There was a lot of noise about vaccinations in the UK in the last decades, mostly about MMRI jabs giving children autism - all of it, once a thorough investigation was made, wrong. Plain and simple. Sure someone may get a bad reaction, but someone may also die from taking one baby aspirin. Everyone's chemistry is different and you can't be sure for everyone that anything is 100% safe. I had a friend who was so allergic to anyone else's bacteria but her own that she would go into a severe immune depressed state if she had sex. No one is the same as anyone else, but when we test drugs we try to determine the widest possible tolerance. No one can foresee all cases. But the MMRI jabs did not cause one case of autism, or anything else, in the UK, and protected a lot of children.
05-16-2015 02:24 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Measles -- vacinate old people?
(05-16-2015 02:24 PM)DocWils Wrote:  There was a lot of noise.......
Hey Doc,
When you get a minute would you weigh in on this thread? http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread-...#pid113672

It may not be anything you can help with, but it sounds like something in your part of the world.
05-16-2015 02:56 PM
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me50 Offline

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Post: #49
RE: Measles -- vacinate old people?
(05-16-2015 05:24 AM)DocWils Wrote:  
(05-16-2015 01:21 AM)me50 Wrote:  I didn't get vaccinated this year because they said that the flu vaccine would not help against the strain that was going around this year. But, I also don't go out where there are a lot of people very often and certainly don't if I am sick. I just got off an antibiotic (CIPRO) which I absolutely hate taking and avoid it at all costs. It is a miserable antibiotic. I slept a lot at first and then got insomnia. You can't have calcium within a certain time frame and most everything has calcium in it and no caffeine, etc. etc. and it made it hard to eat anything. I didn't have the flu though.

No one gets the flu every year (actually, I knew someone who did, and she actually lived to 92, but don't let that encourage you not to get a shot).

Sorry to hear about the CIPRO, yeah it is a bitch and I hate to prescribe it. In fact I usually avoid doing that if I can. But sometimes there is no choice. Antibiotics will do nothing against flus, or even colds for that matter, so don't ever take them unless it is something that is confirmed to handled with an antibiotic. US doctors give out antibiotics like candy and it is creating superbugs and strains that are threatening to kill a lot of people. Us European doctors have never like that tendency in the US and warned about it for years, and now it is creating havoc. If we don't develop new antibiotics soon a lot of people will be harmed, but there is little incentive for drug companies to do so, as they make no money out of them (because new antibiotics are held in reserve for years, even decades before being put into circulation so that new resistant strains don't develop).

I refused antibiotic twice and then had an MRI that showed fluid in my ear and an infection around the mastoid bone. My doc told me I had to go to the hospital (she had already given me a script of cipro) but I refused the hospital visit as my ENT said they would just give me CIPRO by IV. I still don't know if CIPRO was necessary but I was told that it was close to my brain.

(05-16-2015 01:21 AM)me50 Wrote:  
I did have a pneumonia shot 3 or 4 years ago and that was the first one I ever had and the first time a doc told me about it. I never concerned myself with measles shot after 50 because I was told measles was under control but is it really? People still get measles so it may not be like it used to be but people still get measles. We all had the measles and only one of us had the mumps and that sibling had to be hospitalized.
Measles is about as under control as it could be expected to be, which is sort of a lid kept on a boiling pot. More or less having had it as a child inoculates you until you are round 50, after that you are vulnerable again. Actually true of most inoculations from childhood.
(05-16-2015 01:21 AM)me50 Wrote:  We just get too comfortable sometimes and some of us have experienced bad doctoring (I know I have and with HMO's, PPO's and medicare dictating coverages and what docs get paid, docs schedule appointments every 10 minutes and rush patients through like cattle here).
When there was a national vote on introducing HMO models here in the insurance it was roundly declined. No one wanted it, even though we have insurance models that are similar in some respects. But doctors seeing patients as rapidly as possible is everywhere and not dictated by financial pressure alone - even in Switzerland we need more GPs. Here, btw, we have a 15 minute limit for basic billing (we then charge per extra 5 minutes), but most patients can be seen and dealt with in 5 to 10 minutes.
(05-16-2015 01:21 AM)me50 Wrote:  
Personally, I don't think saying hateful things to anyone is going to solve anything. It is very disrespectful and bothersome when we are all here for the good of each other and to help each other.
Sorry about that, but I get really angry at people who say just because they don't see it then doctors are running a scam and the like.

I wasn't talking about you specifically. I just saw a lot of bashing rather than accepting that you, me and others have a right to our opinions and ideas and to slam someone is not acceptable. As far as I can tell, you weren't slamming people and their ideas but were expressing your thoughts on how unsafe not being vaccinated is for not only the person but the public that they come in contact with. Even though I stay out of the public when I am sick there is that time frame where we are getting sick but don't know it yet because the symptoms aren't bad enough that we feel sick.


(05-16-2015 01:21 AM)me50 Wrote:  I am more inclined to accept what the doc says but I am not always that willing to trust what I am told. To ME, what he said makes sense to me.
I am sure your doctor also told you then that your inoculations fade as you age. Not all do, but measles and others do. I doubt he said to not get the flu shot, but said that this year's new strain is not covered and left it up to you. It is more or less the standard way to say it, but I wish we would say (and yes, it is the fault of the doc for not being as clear as possible, we forget that patients don't always fill in the blanks we leave) that there are still a ton of other strains out there that will pop up again this year and you may wish to be protected from those, particularly the strain that was new last year and not in last year's vaccine (it is always a sort of rear guard action, alas).
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2015 04:42 AM by me50.)
05-16-2015 04:37 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Measles -- vacinate old people?
(05-16-2015 01:00 PM)justMongo Wrote:  me50: You must be younger than I. When I started school in 1952, there were no vaccination requirements.

Yep, I am younger as I was not yet born in 1952. I knew a boy that had polio and it was not pretty. However, he went swimming in a pool with floating devices to keep him from going under water. I even remember him being in the pool without a parent/guardian around. Times are different now.

The schools did offer a vaccine program to students; and IIRC, it required an opt-in signature from parents.
I started school prior to the Salk polio vaccine being available. We were given that vaccine when it became available.
At the time, Polio was a terrible disease; and, either you knew a person who had polio; or, you knew secondhand of a person who had it.

I assume you have never served in the armed forces. I recall being herded like cattle down a line where needless injection guns were used to administer 4 vaccines at once. They were so busy processing men for the Vietnam War, I was pulled out of line and put behind a microscope to do blood typing from slides taken by finger stick. Refusing a vaccine was an offense under the UCMJ.
05-16-2015 04:43 PM
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