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Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
#1
Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
[attachment=29313][attachment=29312][attachment=29311]I have been struggling with a leak problem for a while now and I am trying to see if it is a mouth leak or a mask leak. I have always been a mouth breather and always have used a pap cap with a chinstrap and here lately have started using SomniFix mouth strips to seal my mouth. I wouldn't think it would be leaking from my mouth now but I need to make sure. I am in the process of trying new mask but if I am still mouth breathing a new mask will not help. I have tried full face mask in the past and tried a Dreamwear FF mask a couple of weeks ago. But none of them seem to work for me because of the shape of my face. So I am trying to find a nasal or nasal pillow mask that works. For the last few years I have used a Dreamwear nasal mask which I love but if it is leaking it's not helping me. I am posting a couple of charts and maybe someone could tell me where the leak seems to be coming from.
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#2
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
Hi there mawaw1992

Generally, if you are using nasal masks,  those broad plateaus in the Leak chart are indicative of mouth leaks, see for example Jan 22, 02:10.

With nasal pillows or cradles some folk get good results with mouth taping: here is a good thread about tape options you may find helpful...Brands of Tape

I came away from my favoured Resmed P30i pillows, thinking I could them work with mouth taping but, alas had to forgo that. Even with Somnifix I found I leaked at the corner of the mouth. So, I had to bite the bullet and find a hybrid/full face mask that works with my face. We are all different and just have to persevere to find what works for us.

Once you control your leaks your machine will be able to work better and display better results for you to interpret.

Another thread to get you thinking: Leak problem solved

Keep persevering, you are not expected to adapt to PAP therapy immediately, indeed reading this board few people are up and running from the get go.
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#3
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
(01-24-2021, 04:12 AM)SevereApnea Wrote: if you are using nasal masks,  those broad plateaus in the Leak chart are indicative of mouth leaks
Now that contradicts my experience with leaks, using the P30i.  For me, all those zig-zags-leaks occur solely by mouth leak, see this (bad) night where my mouth was not properly sealed:



   

Here a closer look of the flow rate in this night:

   

Observe the flat shape of the flow rate when passing through the zero line -- which seems to be an indication of a mouth leak.

In contrast (a different night where my mouth was definitely sealed) here a mask leak from a plateau like leakage:

   

All those spiky leaks are definitely (my) mouth leaks.  All (my) plateau like leaks are mask leaks.
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#4
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
Hi multicast that is interesting, I assume you are using full mouth taping?

With my P30i I used Partial Mouth Taping, to allow some venting through a gap of around 20 -30 mm in the centre of my lips. So I was very conscious of mouth leaks. These were broad based plateaus similar to those to before I used any mouth taping. The prolonged leaks would wake we up, so I had to give this up.

Full mouth taping was claustrophobic and not do-able for me.

At the moment with F30i SW or W I get the occasional puffs from the corners, these are the short sharp spikey ones for me.

It does seem we are all different and need to establish what works for us individually.

Interested to hear comments from others.
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#5
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
All of my mouthleaks(and I had a lot) are flat top for an extended time. I could not stop it with tape, double mouth piece, “Tongue suck”. I now am using FFM (f30) and when there is leak they are short in duration and a spike shape)
Apnea (80-100%) 10 seconds, Hypopnea (50-80%) 10 seconds, Flow Limits (0-50%) not timed  Cervical Collar - Dealing w DME - Chart Organizing
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#6
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
Yeah I felt like a FFM was the answer to to my problem but just can't find one that works on my face. I was thinking I might try the Airtouch F20 with the memory foam and see if it might work. Has anyone tried that mask? If it doesn't work I guess I will have to experiment with different mouth tapes. Apparently the Somnifix is not working for me. I wish they would have made it a little larger than what it is.
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#7
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
Mawaw, a couple of thoughts.

If you want to eliminate the mask-leak hypothesis, you could try using a Bleep mask. That's a relatively expensive experiment, but they just don't leak, so it'd settle the question definitively. If you do order a Bleep mask, be sure to get the current version, with the little black do-hickey that holds a pair of vent diffusers in place. You can get the main bit (Dreamway Connector Kit) from Amazon, and the "ports" also from Amazon as a separate purchase -- no prescriptions required for either. You'll also want some alcohol wipes, because prepping your skin by removing oils is crucial.

I use Somnifix, and when my mouth produces a lot of saliva, the adhesive gets wet and holds less well. This is especially true in the middle of the bottom and at the corners. I use some pieces of cheaper tape to buttress these weak spots. The cheaper tape wouldn't hold if I tried to use it in place of the Somnifix, but it does provide the back-up help I seem to need.
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#8
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
I was saving the Bleep Dreamway mask as my last option due to the cost of the ports because I do not use my insurance and have to pay for them myself and it can get expensive after a few months.
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#9
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
Have you tried the ResMed f30?  I have tried dreamwear ffm and the ResMed that went over my nose and just could not stand them. The f30 is different in that it has a cradle under the nose. This has worked for me. Masks are ver hard to find that really work for you. I hope you can find one that is right for you.
Apnea (80-100%) 10 seconds, Hypopnea (50-80%) 10 seconds, Flow Limits (0-50%) not timed  Cervical Collar - Dealing w DME - Chart Organizing
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#10
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
I haven't tried the Airfit F30. With the Dreamwear FFM, every time I would try to lay on my side it would leak. I have a narrow face and FFM do not seem to want to seal. I was thinking with the Airtouch F20 memory foam that it might seal whereas the silicone wouldn't.
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