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Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
#11
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
I side sleep only and no no leaks. I was very surprised how well the F30 did for me.
Apnea (80-100%) 10 seconds, Hypopnea (50-80%) 10 seconds, Flow Limits (0-50%) not timed  Cervical Collar - Dealing w DME - Chart Organizing
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#12
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
With most companies having free returns on mask I will probably try the F30 and the Airtouch F20. I know if I could find a FFM to fit me it would help the mouth breathing problem.
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#13
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
I side sleep only and no no leaks. I was very surprised how well the F30 did for me.
Apnea (80-100%) 10 seconds, Hypopnea (50-80%) 10 seconds, Flow Limits (0-50%) not timed  Cervical Collar - Dealing w DME - Chart Organizing
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#14
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
Has the OP any experience with nasal masks like the N20 I use?  I also side sleep about 70% of the time, and have AHI below 0.6 routinely.
Contrite, and wiser.
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#15
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
That was the next mask I am going to try before trying the FFM. Do you have the AirFit or the Airtouch?
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#16
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
Hi severeapnea, I wonder what it's worth to only partially tape your mouth: either you tape or you tape not ...  I have an oracular -- more aren't we allowed to hope -- explanation of your plateau-like leaks: The "hole" in your seal may cause a *constant* leak, that is during exhalation and inhalation.  The "typical" mouthleak with a spiky leakage arises from leaking only during exhalation.[url=http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/User-SevereApnea][/url]

A zoom of the flow rate may give some more clarity.
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#17
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
[attachment=29352]Here is a zoom of that period starting around 2:05 on Jan. 22 that showed going into a Large Leak.
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#18
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
(01-25-2021, 03:56 AM)multicast Wrote: Hi severeapnea, I wonder what it's worth to only partially tape your mouth: either you tape or you tape not ...  I have an oracular -- more aren't we allowed to hope -- explanation of your plateau-like leaks: The "hole" in your seal may cause a *constant* leak, that is during exhalation and inhalation.  The "typical" mouthleak with a spiky leakage arises from leaking only during exhalation.
A zoom of the flow rate may give some more clarity.

@ multicast, hi!

I appreciate your input and assistance.
I think this is more varied than I first thought, perhaps a matter of degree, or perhaps we are approaching this from a different angle.

I don't understand the flow charts you attached in post # 3, but I am willing to learn more.

To explain where I am coming from, here are 2 charts from when I first started PAP therapy: I was using the N30 with various (useless) chin straps. Sleep session #1 no mouth tape, wide broad leaks. 

Frustrated, in Session #2 I applied full mouth taping (micropore, terrible tape hard to get off in a hurry): note the minimal leaks from the N30 were short and spikey, these must have been from the N30/nose seal. 

         

Notes from that night: excuse the language, my frustration.

"Wed 19th Feb 2020

from 10 PM to 2 AM 
Nasal N30 with white Tiara and front strap with flat pillow.
NO EVENTS, little flow limitation, low pressures.
Woke up because it was hot 30degrees and sore ribs. 
Up until then max pressure was only = 12.1
Then put on A/c and 

Then from 2:30 AM to 3:45 AM I applied Micropore tape to my MOUTH and had SIX EVENTS,
as long as 47 seconds and high pressures.
Note almost zero leaks.
Note fluctuant flow limitation and minute ventilation.
Low flow limitation at the time of the OSAs. Why is this?
what is going on here? 
What I think is that there is OSA, your brain wants to open the mouth to draw in air, sh*t no air!
Negative pressure, OSA gets worse, too bad, take the poor old nasal jobbie much longer to build up to a much higher pressure.
Therefore no tape with N30 until further notice and I have the oximeter.
I did think the N30 had some leaks from around the nasal pillow.

then after 3:47 back to white Tiara and no more OSAs!"

Note particularly the wide broad leaks in session #1, 22h30 onwards, when the combination of chin strap, tongue to palate position and keeping lips closed fails. The air gushes out the mouth, initiated by mouth leakage. The dam has burst and the water (or in this case air) gushes out.

Of course you can see with full mouth taping I had 6 OSA which discouraged me from pursuing this further.

From that experience I avoided full mouth taping.
Also, full mouth taping does not allow sneezing/coughing/gasping.

Reason for partial mouth taping? 
By inverting lips, applying partial mouth tape, and Scunci alice bands over the top, I was able to
1) apply a ball valve effect to allow blow off of too much PEEP.
2) reduce audible leaks which allowed better sleep.
3) allow a vent hole for coughing/sneezing.
4) access to a straw to drink water during the night.
At least that was my logic then.

So, for me, the wide broad leaks are a break-down of the mouth/lips which results in failure to maintain pressure to keep the airway open, hence failure of PAP therapy.

Perhaps I am making this more complicated than it should be and I hope we are not confusing the OP!

@ mawaw1992

Hope you eventually find the right mask. What I have found is that even with one type of mask, the different size cushions can make a difference, and you may want to experiment with them. Hopefully you can get to try these on a return/loan basis. I have no problem with loaning cushions from our Ozzie DME equivalent. 1) I am sure they wash them thoroughly. 2) I will always wash them even more thoroughly before using them, and before returning  them.
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#19
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
I struggled log time with the Dreamwear Full Face. I had to have it far too tight to stop large leaks. 

I was then sent a ResMed F30 and I love it. Comfortable and very little leaks.
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#20
RE: Mouth Leak or Mask Leak?
You mentioned the Dreamwear FF mask. I recently started using it and immediately found that at first it sealed perfectly, then throughout the night it would start leaking. Either by the nose or around the mouth. I ended up looping the upper straps around the frame up closer to the air inlet. This raised the entire strap assembly up onto the backside of my head rather then having the lower straps around my neck. What was happening was the tension on the lower straps would change depending on the tilt(up or down) of my head. I would either pull the mask down (making my nose area leak) by raising my chin or make the mask leak around the mouth from releasing tension by lowering my chin.  
   It does seem to me that if others are also having this problem that Phillips would make a design change. I also had this problem with the Resmed F30i mask so maybe it's just me and something about my head/neck assembly.(body parts)  Good Luck.
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