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My AHI 5 times higher with a Facial mask than with the Nasal One
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Rouletabille Offline

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Joined: Oct 2013

Machine: Resmed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal mask
Mask Make & Model: Resmed
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Sex: Male
Location: France

Post: #11
RE: My AHI 5 times higher with a Facial mask than with the Nasal One
(11-02-2013 08:50 PM)jgjones1972 Wrote:  A chin strap or tongue positioning techniques are the only methods I would recommend for eliminating mouth leaks with nasal-only interface. Some people do use tape, but I wouldn't recommend it...I don't think it is safe. If a chin strap and/or tongue positioning don't work for you, you are better off just using a full face mask imho.


I agree with you, jgjones . Well, I just tried last night "as an experiment" to sleep half of the night with the nasal mask and a tape on the mouth. The leaks were quite lower (average 5, when it it's 15 to 18 without tape). And the AHI was correct, as it is always with the nasal mask. But as you say, using a full mask is a better solution - knowing that I have no problem to sleep with it. But it brings me back to my original question : why is my AHI much bigger with the facial mask ? It seems to make no sense...
11-03-2013 12:27 PM
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Lukie Offline

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Machine: Resmed S9 Auto
Mask Type: Full face mask
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Location: Vermont

Post: #12
RE: My AHI 5 times higher with a Facial mask than with the Nasal One
Did you ever find a solution or answer? I am finding out the same thing.
I did half of last night with the Eson nasal mask with only one event and the other half of the night with
my quattro air full face mask and I had 11 events. Leaks were similar. Why? I know I had more REM the second half but should that make that much difference?
02-14-2014 03:33 PM
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retired_guy Offline

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Posts: 2,744
Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: ResMed S9 Autoset
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
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Location: Beautiful, albeit very wet Oregon Coast

Post: #13
RE: My AHI 5 times higher with a Facial mask than with the Nasal One
Don't know if it would affect the reported results or not, but did you remember to tell the Resmed you were using a FFM?
02-14-2014 03:47 PM
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DocWils Offline

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Machine: Philips Remstar series 60
Mask Type: Nasal pillows
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Humidifier: same as machine
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CPAP Software: SleepyHead

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Sex: Male
Location: Switzerland

Post: #14
RE: My AHI 5 times higher with a Facial mask than with the Nasal One
If you are a nose breather, you will breath through your nose with either the ffm or the pillows. However, many people have a problem of the nasal walls collapsing when they breath in - if this is a problem with you, nasal pillows will act to keep the walls activated and prevent collapse, thus rendering a better breathing quality. To test this for you is simple - if you use some nasal strips like the breath-rite ones or use a nasal expander (more or less a spring that is inserted into both nostrils) while using your ffm and your AHI starts to approach the levels found with your nasal mask, then the answer lies in the collapsing nasal walls, which will collapse with both ffm and nasal mask but not with nasal pillows. If not, the answer lies elsewhere.

Also, if your mouth is open when using a pillow, it will alter the AHI values, so you would need to test the pillows with a chin strap.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2014 05:16 PM by DocWils.)
02-14-2014 05:14 PM
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herbm Offline

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Machine: ResMed AutoSet S9
Mask Type: Oral
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Airfit P10 Nasal Pillow
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CPAP Pressure: 11-16
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Backup Mask: Innomed Hybrid FFM -- Oral+Nasal Pillows

Sex: Male
Location: Austin, TX

Post: #15
RE: My AHI 5 times higher with a Facial mask than with the Nasal One
This might not be the answer nor even part of the answer but from what I read you might consider this:

1) Perhaps something is different about your air track when your mouth is open (or at least in a certain position) so that your apnea is worse. Perhaps you tongue falls further back or something.

2) When using a nasal only, it is a great benefit IF you are ABLE to close off your mouth from the rest of the airway by allowing your tongue to slide back a bit in the mouth closed position.

#2 allows you to keep the air out of your mouth and avoid the chipmunk cheeks.

I doubt that everyone can do this but it works for me quite easily so it is worth some effort to determine if you can develop the knack.

This way it is possible to not only keep your mouth from inflating and leaking but to do things like lick your lips, cough in two stages, etc., all without leaking.

Give it a try if you are able.

No matter what, good luck and keep working on it.

Sweet Dreams,

HerbM
Sleep study AHI: 49 RDI: 60 -- APAP 10-11 w/AHI: 1.5 avg for 7-days (up due likely to hip replacement recovery)

"We can all breathe together or we will all suffocate alone."
02-14-2014 07:42 PM
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mdh235 Offline

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Location: West Coast U.S.

Post: #16
RE: My AHI 5 times higher with a Facial mask than with the Nasal One
(02-14-2014 03:33 PM)Lukie Wrote:  Did you ever find a solution or answer? I am finding out the same thing.
I did half of last night with the Eson nasal mask with only one event and the other half of the night with
my quattro air full face mask and I had 11 events. Leaks were similar. Why? I know I had more REM the second half but should that make that much difference?

I'm a mouth breather and have to use tape to sleep with nasal pillows.

I've noticed the following differences between pillows and a full face mask on me.

1) I wake up more often with the face mask.

2) My AHI is often higher with the face mask, but still always remains below 4.

3) When it works, I much prefer using the pillows (and chin strap to keep my cheeks from chipmunking out). The problem is even taped up it doesn't always work (i.e. air leaks out of my mouth).

4) After half a year at this I'm still trying to find a mask that lets me sleep through most of the night and doesn't require wearing tape, chinstrap, and mask.

5) I'm starting to doubt that I'm ever going to find such a thing, and with a non-CPAP apnea in the 6-7 range am beginning to wonder if this is worth all the trouble.
02-14-2014 08:25 PM
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herbm Offline

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Machine: ResMed AutoSet S9
Mask Type: Oral
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Airfit P10 Nasal Pillow
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CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Backup Mask: Innomed Hybrid FFM -- Oral+Nasal Pillows

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Location: Austin, TX

Post: #17
RE: My AHI 5 times higher with a Facial mask than with the Nasal One
Funny, the Oracle Oral CPAP mask I order was what I thought would be the ONLY think a mouth breather with nasal congestion like mine could use.

Turns out it was nearly impossible to sleep with it (finally the 3 time I fell asleep) and one of the issues was the darn chipmunk cheeks which are far more annoying that the name would suggest.

My jaw muscles literally cramped from those -- like being in the dentist chair for an hour or two.

Turns out the MOST UNLIKELY Airfit P10 Nasal Pillow mask worked nearly perfectly for me.

(It was largely due to that trick of closing off the back of my throat with my tongue since that meant all the air went back and forth from nose to lungs.

Sweet Dreams,

HerbM
Sleep study AHI: 49 RDI: 60 -- APAP 10-11 w/AHI: 1.5 avg for 7-days (up due likely to hip replacement recovery)

"We can all breathe together or we will all suffocate alone."
02-14-2014 11:26 PM
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me50 Offline

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Post: #18
RE: My AHI 5 times higher with a Facial mask than with the Nasal One
(02-14-2014 08:25 PM)mdh235 Wrote:  
(02-14-2014 03:33 PM)Lukie Wrote:  Did you ever find a solution or answer? I am finding out the same thing.
I did half of last night with the Eson nasal mask with only one event and the other half of the night with
my quattro air full face mask and I had 11 events. Leaks were similar. Why? I know I had more REM the second half but should that make that much difference?

I'm a mouth breather and have to use tape to sleep with nasal pillows.

I've noticed the following differences between pillows and a full face mask on me.

1) I wake up more often with the face mask.

2) My AHI is often higher with the face mask, but still always remains below 4.

3) When it works, I much prefer using the pillows (and chin strap to keep my cheeks from chipmunking out). The problem is even taped up it doesn't always work (i.e. air leaks out of my mouth).

4) After half a year at this I'm still trying to find a mask that lets me sleep through most of the night and doesn't require wearing tape, chinstrap, and mask.

5) I'm starting to doubt that I'm ever going to find such a thing, and with a non-CPAP apnea in the 6-7 range am beginning to wonder if this is worth all the trouble.

IMHO, it is worth the effort and "trouble" to keep using your machine. The possible/potential option is not one I am willing to take a chance on. Hope you aren't either.
02-15-2014 01:11 AM
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herbm Offline

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Posts: 852
Joined: Jan 2014

Machine: ResMed AutoSet S9
Mask Type: Oral
Mask Make & Model: ResMed Airfit P10 Nasal Pillow
Humidifier: ResMed H5i
CPAP Pressure: 11-16
CPAP Software: ResScan SleepyHead

Other Comments: Backup Mask: Innomed Hybrid FFM -- Oral+Nasal Pillows

Sex: Male
Location: Austin, TX

Post: #19
RE: My AHI 5 times higher with a Facial mask than with the Nasal One
+1

There is an easy way to fail: Don't keep using the machine.

There is one certain way to succeed: Keep using the machine (and work out the problems.)


I have been incredibly lucky to have faced almost no serious problems but that is very unusual (and partly due to the preparation the folks on this forum gave me) from what I read.

Most people have trouble -- heck, half fail.

But one thing that is undeniably true is this: Everyone who failed stopped using the equipment and everyone who succeeded found a way to make it work.

It is said that your "Support Team" and "YOUR Involvement" in treatment are the two most reliable indicators of likely success.

Given that you are visiting here on this forum YOU ARE INVOLVED and you can get ALL THE SUPPORT YOU ASK FOR.

Get 'errrrr dun!

Sweet Dreams,

HerbM
Sleep study AHI: 49 RDI: 60 -- APAP 10-11 w/AHI: 1.5 avg for 7-days (up due likely to hip replacement recovery)

"We can all breathe together or we will all suffocate alone."
02-16-2014 12:38 PM
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Curvesarein Offline

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Mask Type: Nasal pillows
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Post: #20
RE: My AHI 5 times higher with a Facial mask than with the Nasal One
I got a sinus infection soon after going back to A-pap with the humidifier too high. Could the apap be the cause of my infection? I use nasal pillows and ther was water bubbling in the pillows it was so high.
04-02-2014 09:58 PM
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