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My latesr study into O2 ratios and CPAP
#1
My latesr study into O2 ratios and CPAP
First I have been on CPAP for 7 years and made a number of threads here: here is my latest one.


I AM 72, and frustrating running into some health problems. For the past 6 months I crash nearly every day after about 2 to 4 hours of being up. So progress on all projects is running at 1/2 speed.
 
And as before the Doctors cannot find anything wrong...I am down to Chronic Fatigue, or a new idea we are testing low OX in blood stream. The damn thing is it often runs under 95% but almost never drops below 90%, which is near the point they will add O2, which is at 88%.
 
So again I am stuck with how I can be sickly but not sick enough for treatment.  Seems the medical profession is mainly geared to keep you alive. Not to help you LIVE…
 
Spending most of my time feeling 60% dead, is not living.
 
There is some evidence that when you drop below 95% blood O2 ratio there is some impairment….Fatigue and brain fogging is common the more below 95% you go.
 
Which I am now putting together a picture of how this could be happening, and that my CPAP can be partly being the cause of my current problems.
 
I shallow breath, short small intakes of air. This is enough to sustain me but as the day wares on I run down and crash.
 
How my CPAP Machine could be the cause if it kind of forces air into my lungs, fast and easy…so I do not need to draw the air in. I am finding that most of the night I am running at 95% and above, the machine keeps me well fed.
 
But 8 to 10 hours a night doing these short boosted breathing has trained me to breathe like that all day and that seems to be where I lose my good ratios…and then crash.
 
So I now trying to take long deep breaths, it is hard as if I do anything I forget to do them.
 
I found how much this is machine caused when I tried to take such breaths on it going to sleep: IT Fought me…it cut the incoming air causing me take short breaths. Seems this breathing rate was going below the preset breathing backup rate of 12 breaths a minute.
 
I switched it back on Auto backup rate…it now does not fight me.
 
I also am wearing my recording pulse oxitmeter day time to see how my day and crashed go, to see if I do crash when my ratios drop below 95%.
 
 
Rich
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#2
RE: My latesr study into O2 ratios and CPAP
The only problem with all this is that Medicare has pretty firm rules about paying for o2. If you're not below their levels with a professional o2 test done thru your dme they are not going to pay for it.
First Diagnosed July 1990

MSgt (E-7) USAF (Medic)
Retired 1968-1990
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#3
RE: My latesr study into O2 ratios and CPAP
(12-05-2020, 08:54 PM)greatunclebill Wrote: The only problem with all this is that Medicare has pretty firm rules about paying for o2. If you're not below their levels with a professional o2 test done thru your dme they are not going to pay for it.

Yes I know has to be under 85 or 88...

But I wonder if I am right about learning to short by my machine??

Rich
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#4
RE: My latesr study into O2 ratios and CPAP
Medicare is designed to make you die early to get you off the roll. What are your settings? Increasing SpO2 is really a matter if increasing the minimum pressure. This is the same as increasing PEEP (Positive End Expiratory Pressure). Show me a chart. The alternative is increasing FiO2, and Medicare prefers you to be in an acute stage before they approve a supplemental oxygen generator. If you really have a problem, don't wait for Medicare to approve it for insurance coverage. You know it's worth treating, and Medicare is all about not paying for it.
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#5
RE: My latesr study into O2 ratios and CPAP
(12-05-2020, 09:56 PM)Sleeprider Wrote: Medicare is designed to make you die early to get you off the roll.  What are your settings? Increasing SpO2 is really a matter if increasing the minimum pressure. This is the same as increasing PEEP (Positive End Expiratory Pressure).  Show me a chart. The alternative is increasing FiO2, and Medicare prefers you to be in an acute stage before they approve a supplemental oxygen generator. If you really have a problem, don't wait for Medicare to approve it for insurance coverage. You know it's worth treating, and Medicare is all about not paying for it.

Well that is totally incorrect...I have read reports and books that are saying a major problem to major countries is the support of too many old fokes and how modern medical is keep us old farts alive with costly treatments etc.

SO they are not trying to kill us off.

Also under CPAP I am maintaining good Blood O2 ratios, which is why my mornings are good.

It seems to be my afternoons where I fail to keep good ratios and crash.

At least that is my thought...

SO to recap:

I HAD a good discussion with a Doctor: He informed me that: It gets tricky, too much Oxygen can be even more harmful, AND no one has built a system that will monitor your ox/blood ratios and add OX only when needed, we are stuck with clumsy manual controls.... so too much or too little, like Goldilocks...
 
And until the study is completed it may not be ox/blood ratios just my damn old Chronic Fatigue bugging me again...and it is real, I can have hay fever OR Chronic Fatigue, not both at the same time...usually it starts with hay fever which stitches over to Chronic Fatigue.
 
Meanwhile: I am now putting together a picture of how this could be happening, and that my CPAP can be partly being the cause of my current problems.
 
I shallow breath, short small intakes of air. This is enough to sustain me but as the day wares on I run down and crash.
 
How my CPAP Machine could be the cause as it kind of forces air into my lungs, fast and easy…so I do not need to draw the air in. I am finding that most of the night I am running at 95% and above, the machine keeps me well fed.
 
But 8 to 10 hours a night doing these short boosted breathing has trained me to breathe like that all day and that seems to be where I lose my good ratios…and then crash.
 
So I now trying to take long deep breaths, it is hard as if I do anything I forget to do them.
 
I found how much this is machine caused when I tried to take such breaths on it going to sleep: IT Fought me…it cut the incoming air causing me take short breaths. Seems this breathing rate was going below the preset breathing backup rate of 12 breaths a minute.
 
I switched it back on Auto backup rate…it now does not fight me.
 
Rich
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#6
RE: My latesr study into O2 ratios and CPAP
Have it your way. Good luck.
Sleeprider
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#7
RE: My latesr study into O2 ratios and CPAP
Rich- what is your exercise tolerance- can you walk 3  miles at any pace/day- even slight to moderate regular exercise will increase your inspiratory volume. You can start slow while measuring you po2 and cont inure if it does not fall below 90. if you gradually increase your tolerance it may help (get your physicians ok first)
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#8
RE: My latesr study into O2 ratios and CPAP
racprops

Isn't it a bit odd that you post here asking for help on various things, and when we give suggestions you always have a reason or excuse that it won't work?

I am of the opinion that Apnea Board is not just a place to vent. You need to vent, OK have at it. But if you ask for advisement or suggestions to help, be respectful to try it. You have not yet gotten past the basics that your Respironics is less than acceptable for your needs to put it politely. More bluntly is your machine is junk. Get that need fixed and maybe other things fall into place. Unless that changes, I have no further suggestions. And be careful of the language, your immaturity is showing.
Dave

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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEBSITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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#9
RE: My latesr study into O2 ratios and CPAP
(12-06-2020, 01:14 PM)SarcasticDave94 Wrote: racprops

Isn't it a bit odd that you post here asking for help on various things, and when we give suggestions you always have a reason or excuse that it won't work?

I am of the opinion that Apnea Board is not just a place to vent. You need to vent, OK have at it. But if you ask for advisement or suggestions to help, be respectful to try it. You have not yet gotten past the basics that your Respironics is less than acceptable for your needs to put it politely. More bluntly is your machine is junk. Get that need fixed and maybe other things fall into place. Unless that changes, I have no further suggestions. And be careful of the language, your immaturity is showing.

And I find it interesting that no one seems to understand the problems I put forth.

The first question was about blood oxygen...does anyone know about how or if lower than 95% cause weakness and brain fog?

The second part was about my idea that the machines can train us to breath shallowly and thus cause a low blood oxygen ratios when off them.

Seems simple enough...but so far no one has dealt with either of these questions.

Greqatunclebill  Address how Medicare will not PAY for O2, which I already know and these rules are not a matter of cost, in my second note I point out too much O2 is worst health wise than just a just a little too little such as I seem to be having…under 95 but not under 90. I also pointed out that without special machines that can monitor a persons O2 ratios and threat them between a couple of set points they do not prescribe O2 unless the conduction is serious as in running below 85%.
 
Sleeprider says Medicare is trying to kill us older persons off, yet they are doing everything in their power to keep us alive even to the point of us becoming vertbles on life support. So I disagree with him.

He also was telling me to make changes to my machine even when I pointed out I DO NOT have low blood oxygen ratios ON it,  that it is during the day when I crash from what I believe is shallow breathing.
 
So he did not understand the problem.
 
And when I disagreed with him he more or less said p*** off.
 
Goodn asked good questions, but also failed to understand fully my statements: I seem to be suffering from Chronic Fatigue, so I can have good days where I can work normally and bad days where the brain fog is major.  And I agree even mild exercise can help WHEN I can do it.
 
Now you SarcasticDave94 rants about how I do not follow suggestions..how my Dreamstation Is Junk…and how he feels unless I buy a ResMed system I am not worthy of help.
 
YET my AHI are 90% of the time under 5 and 70% of the time under 2.
 
And by my ResMed  sleep cycle monitor I get a score of 92+….
 
And lastly he states: “And be careful of the language, your immaturity is showing.”
 
Well he sure picked the correct name….
 
Sadly I have found worthless sleep doctors, ones whom seemly barely understand the machines we depend on.
 
So I came here seeking understanding and help and am told things that do not even seem to come close to the problem I am asking about and when I do not bow down and declare how wise you are even when your answers are baseless and worthless to the problems I am asking about I get blasted.
 
SO yes your right I may not belong here.
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#10
RE: My latesr study into O2 ratios and CPAP
OK! Everybody please take a step back and relax. Blaming something or someone NEVER corrected anything. If it did, we would have a perfect operating government. After all, the intent of Apnea Board is to help one another. Please consider that if you are receiving replies that don't match your request, you might need to refine the detail of your request to be understood. On the other side, if someone isn't going to listen to your advice, why bother posting to the thread?
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INFORMATION ON APNEA BOARD FORUMS OR ON APNEABOARD.COM SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS MEDICAL ADVICE. ALWAYS SEEK THE ADVICE OF A PHYSICIAN BEFORE SEEKING TREATMENT FOR MEDICAL CONDITIONS, INCLUDING SLEEP APNEA. INFORMATION POSTED ON THE APNEA BOARD WEB SITE AND FORUMS ARE PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND NOT NECESSARILY A STATEMENT OF FACT.
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